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Re: All World Athlete [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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That question doesn’t really follow the posts I’ve made, but I’ll answer like this: I don’t really care how the races are scored or how many are tabulated in a year. AWA is has the potential of rewarding a frequent flyer many more points than an FOP who does 1-2 races per year. That not really a reward for quality, just for spending lots of money to go to races. Someone in the top 20 of an AG in a race is qualitatively much better than someone who finishes in the bottom 25% of an AG, but that BOP who enters 4+ races has a claim to be ranked higher, though in essence, they’ve paid for that ranking.

But, as I said, everyone knows what they pay for.
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Re: All World Athlete [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
That question doesn’t really follow the posts I’ve made, but I’ll answer like this: I don’t really care how the races are scored or how many are tabulated in a year. AWA is has the potential of rewarding a frequent flyer many more points than an FOP who does 1-2 races per year. That not really a reward for quality, just for spending lots of money to go to races. Someone in the top 20 of an AG in a race is qualitatively much better than someone who finishes in the bottom 25% of an AG, but that BOP who enters 4+ races has a claim to be ranked higher, though in essence, they’ve paid for that ranking.

But, as I said, everyone knows what they pay for.

4+ races doesn't get you anything more. 3 races are all that count. So if only 2 races or even just one were counted, you think it would be more accurate?
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Re: All World Athlete [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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For that podium/FOP racer they are likely earning a spot to Worlds which is far more prestigious and recognized as an achievement. AWA seems more for that MOP person who consistently races, but likely will rarely qualify for Worlds. It's similar to any other series type system where winning isn't required. Take Super League for example, Jessica Learmonth won 3 of the 4 races, but lost the series.

Is it flawed, absolutely... All series systems have their flaws.
Is it valuable for Ironman, 100%.
Does it give a MOP person something to chase and stay engaged, for some no doubt, for others it's completely meaningless.

Me, I'm pretty damn proud that I was able to go from 380 lbs to bronze AWA this year and you can be damn sure I'm going to step up my game to try and get silver next year and a 70.3 WC slot in 2024. It's cool that Ironman has various ways to keep their customers engaged and motivated.
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Re: All World Athlete [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
No one outside of triathlons knows that AWA is a money-grab by IM brand. I applaud IM for it, however, bc they know how to make a buck.

How is IM making money off this? What am I missing here? There are some potential minor perks/discounts for the AWA athletes, which IM isn't losing very much money on I suspect. But where is IM making money back on this program?
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Re: All World Athlete [IM-Yeti] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's like what some are saying -- status is achieved, in part, by how much you're willing to pay. You still have to be very good to get gold/silver/bronze but there are some really good athletes being left off those lists because maybe they can only get to one race a year.

Maybe a multi-year rankings system would be better -- something like your top-3 races over a 2 year span. Idk. Something to try to make it more accessible.
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Re: All World Athlete [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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I've never heard of anyone actively entering more races in a year to try to gain AWA status. I guess that must be a thing in other circles.
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Re: All World Athlete [IM-Yeti] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think that taking your top 3 races in a season is exorbitant or a money grab.

AWA is about finishing well consistently. Almost anyone can train 20 weeks and do well in one race and then take 32 weeks off recovering. I think people are discounting what it takes to stay healthy and compete in multiple races throughout the entire race season.

Qualifying for WC is the program for those who don't choose to race multiple times throughout the season.

I like to race and would race multiple races even if the AWA didn't exist. I finished AG top ten in 4 IM branded races last season. Qualifying for WC in 3 of 4 races. While I am gold, I am not at the top of gold. It seems the WC qualifying system is what needs to be adjusted. It's not like you don't have to do anything to achieve gold. If you like to actually compete against others as a hobby, I don't see the problem with AWA.
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Re: All World Athlete [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:
I don't think that taking your top 3 races in a season is exorbitant or a money grab.

AWA is about finishing well consistently. Almost anyone can train 20 weeks and do well in one race and then take 32 weeks off recovering. I think people are discounting what it takes to stay healthy and compete in multiple races throughout the entire race season.

Qualifying for WC is the program for those who don't choose to race multiple times throughout the season.

I like to race and would race multiple races even if the AWA didn't exist. I finished AG top ten in 4 IM branded races last season. Qualifying for WC in 3 of 4 races. While I am gold, I am not at the top of gold. It seems the WC qualifying system is what needs to be adjusted. It's not like you don't have to do anything to achieve gold. If you like to actually compete against others as a hobby, I don't see the problem with AWA.

Kudos to you for achieving gold. Anyone trying to discredit AWA is misdirected. Achieving gold means your Top 3 races yielded Top 1% in your AG. It's a significant measure of sustained success.

As indicated IM isn't making anything from AWA unless you don't race IM brand and only choose to do so to gain AWA status. I've not met or heard of anyone doing it.

The only issues are some athletes will do 1 or 2 races and not 3 by choice. The measuring metric is not even for all participants. There's not much you can do there.

The other issue to me was grouping 140.6 and 70.3 with points weighted towards 140.6 at a max of 5,000 per race versus 3,500 for 70.3. They are pushing 140.6 in this regard.

I preferred when they had overall, 140.6, and 70.3 categories. I compete in 70.3's so I used to look at the 70.3 category as this is the one I raced in. Now they're grouped and people that do 140.6 can gain more points.

I understand the system, but I do wish they had actually not made the changes consolidating to a single overall tier in 2022.
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Re: All World Athlete [Plantlete] [ In reply to ]
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Plantlete wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
I don't think that taking your top 3 races in a season is exorbitant or a money grab.

AWA is about finishing well consistently. Almost anyone can train 20 weeks and do well in one race and then take 32 weeks off recovering. I think people are discounting what it takes to stay healthy and compete in multiple races throughout the entire race season.

Qualifying for WC is the program for those who don't choose to race multiple times throughout the season.

I like to race and would race multiple races even if the AWA didn't exist. I finished AG top ten in 4 IM branded races last season. Qualifying for WC in 3 of 4 races. While I am gold, I am not at the top of gold. It seems the WC qualifying system is what needs to be adjusted. It's not like you don't have to do anything to achieve gold. If you like to actually compete against others as a hobby, I don't see the problem with AWA.


Kudos to you for achieving gold. Anyone trying to discredit AWA is misdirected. Achieving gold means your Top 3 races yielded Top 1% in your AG. It's a significant measure of sustained success.

As indicated IM isn't making anything from AWA unless you don't race IM brand and only choose to do so to gain AWA status. I've not met or heard of anyone doing it.

The only issues are some athletes will do 1 or 2 races and not 3 by choice. The measuring metric is not even for all participants. There's not much you can do there.

The other issue to me was grouping 140.6 and 70.3 with points weighted towards 140.6 at a max of 5,000 per race versus 3,500 for 70.3. They are pushing 140.6 in this regard.

I preferred when they had overall, 140.6, and 70.3 categories. I compete in 70.3's so I used to look at the 70.3 category as this is the one I raced in. Now they're grouped and people that do 140.6 can gain more points.

I understand the system, but I do wish they had actually not made the changes consolidating to a single overall tier in 2022.

I agree and also wish IM would have kept the 70.3 and 140.6 separate. I plan on sending a note to IM about it. No system is perfect. Even the pros complain about the PTO points system. Nothing is perfect for everyone.
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Re: All World Athlete [JasonGeorge] [ In reply to ]
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The combination of the two makes sense and simplifies the process. The "gold" status benefits are solid and worth having.
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Re: All World Athlete [marquette42] [ In reply to ]
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marquette42 wrote:
Matt, you need to switch the year to 2021. You are bronze overall and silver in 70.3... unless there is another Matt Pocknell who achieved those results.



matt.pocknell wrote:
Could be worse, I also received the email saying I’ve been awarded silver status, but my name produces no results on the website.

Thank you. I’m an idiot.
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Re: All World Athlete [IM-Yeti] [ In reply to ]
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I would agree im not sure that anyone is signing up for more races just to get status. Also not sure there is many ways to make the system more fair - unless you gave gold status to the top 2% of qualified athletes (those who have completed 3 or more races - maybe change this to 2?)

Personally i didn't pay too much attention to the rankings, but was pleasantly surprised to get gold (Did 1 IM and 2 70.3 this year). Looking at them now it seems like at the top end the rankings seem pretty good - most of those in the top 20 by age group have completed 3 races and finished strongly in them.
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Re: All World Athlete [tjbmsg] [ In reply to ]
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tjbmsg wrote:
The combination of the two makes sense and simplifies the process. The "gold" status benefits are solid and worth having.

I assume you mean weighting the 140.6 with more points makes sense because of the difficulty of the distance compared to 70.3.

I think that is a legit argument for the new points system.
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Re: All World Athlete [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed...the points systems make sense and should get more for the full...They should also take the top 3 performances to do the rankings like the US Triathlon does but at least this is start. I was able to win my age group (M60-65) in all three Ironman races I participated in last year including the 70.3 worlds. I do other non branded races as well because it was tough to register for races with all the deferrals and sell outs. I had to go all the way to Portugal to get into a fall Full. Great spot but iffy travelling with Covid going on. This year I am do 3 70.3's and 3 fulls all Ironman branded.
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Re: All World Athlete [tjbmsg] [ In reply to ]
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tjbmsg wrote:
Agreed...the points systems make sense and should get more for the full...They should also take the top 3 performances to do the rankings like the US Triathlon does but at least this is start. I was able to win my age group (M60-65) in all three Ironman races I participated in last year including the 70.3 worlds. I do other non branded races as well because it was tough to register for races with all the deferrals and sell outs. I had to go all the way to Portugal to get into a fall Full. Great spot but iffy travelling with Covid going on. This year I am do 3 70.3's and 3 fulls all Ironman branded.

I had already looked at your results from last season. Impressive!
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