Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: PTO World Tour [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Way back in the '80s I did an "equilateral triathlon" That I believe was something like 2k, 20k, 8k; or, maybe 2m swim, 18m bike and 7m run. There is the very slightest of chances that I have to t-shirt in my attic.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [david] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The equilateral triathlon I think was from a guy named Fletcher Hanks?? Think maybe he left us, but as I recall, it was around 2 hours for each event (or maybe 2 hours total, memory is foggy)or so for a well rounded pro. Think Scott Molina did it one year, maybe he can bring his recollection of the event. Or anyone else who did it back in the day too...
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The Redondo Beach triathlon was (is) a sprint version of this equal time format, and has always been one of my favorite races! 1k swim, 6 mile bike, 2 mile run (I think)
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lew Kidder posted this here from a thread in 2006. 5 mile swim! 20 mile run was second. Fletcher was quite the character:

“ I don't know who Wainer and De Veaux might be, but they are hardly the progenitors of the "equilateral triathlon" idea. Fletcher Hanks produced an event called the Oxford Equilateral Triathlon - first one was in 1985, I believe. 5-mile swim, 20-mile run, 50-mile bike (in that order). Won the first year by Scott Molina, wearing a pink-and-grey Promotion wetsuit in the swim (the first time most of us had seen such equipment). Forgot who won the women's race, but Molina and swim star Eney Jones swam the entire first leg together and had a huge lead going into the second leg.


The "Equilateral" was a companion to the Oxford International Triathlon (2.4-mile swim, 20-mile run, 50-mile bike), held on the eastern shore of Chesapeake Bay (Maryland) in the first week of June. The longer version lasted but two years and was cancelled for lack of interest. The shorter version survives as the "Blackwater Eagleman", however, albeit with a more standard format and a somewhat different course. “

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...?post=673600#p673600
Last edited by: DavidC: Dec 29, 21 18:54
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [DavidC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's the race David, thanks for digging that up!

And I was right, just about 2 hours for each event for a 6 hour race. I would have loved a race like this to have survived and been a big pro race. Of course it changes nothing for the very pointy end folks, they have to excel in all 3 sports. But it sure would magnify any tiny weakness, like Lionel's or a host of others swims. Come to think of it, hardly anyone has a bad bike/run combo these days, so it really would just weed out anyone not a front pack swimmer..
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Anyone get an more info on this? The site still says ag registration starts Jan 25th (today) but I see no way to sign up or any more info on course maps (Dallas).
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reg is open now - it wasn't first thing this morning but is now up.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [HoustonTri(er)] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
$400 entry. That's a lot.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [ADabs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know people said it on this thread already, but it seems that PTO has basically acknowledged 2 things somewhat at odds with its own founding thesis that long course pro racing could be economically viable in and of itself …

1) in putting on its own events, pto chose to make them only 100km, shorter than even a 70.3, because the lc product isn’t particularly compelling and they felt it needed to be shorter for consumption

2) the need for (and PTO making a play for) the mass participation AG dollars required to keep the whole thing rolling

I hope the series lasts, but 400$ is pretty steep and outprices most NA 70.3 races right now which are a known quantity, feed a WC qualification system, and draw stellar AG fields.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [ADabs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ADabs wrote:
$400 entry. That's a lot.


Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
LOL!!!! BUSTED

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [tilburs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tilburs wrote:
I was referring to races to date that any pro can enter although i accept the nascar circuit races to date have been invite only.

My 2c is race that have restricted entry e.g. Collins cup should not be included in points calculation for exactly the reason you mention, the PTO should back those races with sufficient prize money to make it of interest to those invited who take a long view at year end rankings implication.

Either it should be a level playing field or it shouldn’t and it be made clear the ‘upper echelon’ going to be favoured monetarily (perhaps weirdly then inspiring newer pros to want to break through)
Bringing this one back up unfortunately, as the PTO have also announced that all PTO races will receive a 5% boost in points awarded. Awarding points to an invite only race would be one thing, but artificially boosting the numbers higher is just absurd. If their ranking system worked like they claim it does, they wouldn't need to do this.

And this is on top of the new that one full distance race per athlete gets a 10% score boost. That's exactly what we needed... to punish athletes who are not yet ready to start full distance racing or have decided to stick with middle distance for one reason or another. But I guess when the higher ranked athletes literally have more voting power per person than everyone else, and the highest ranked person who doesn't do fulls is Ben Kanute at #8, they're going to turn a blind eye to what this will do to the rest of the field...

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
realbdeal wrote:
tilburs wrote:
I was referring to races to date that any pro can enter although i accept the nascar circuit races to date have been invite only.

My 2c is race that have restricted entry e.g. Collins cup should not be included in points calculation for exactly the reason you mention, the PTO should back those races with sufficient prize money to make it of interest to those invited who take a long view at year end rankings implication.

Either it should be a level playing field or it shouldn’t and it be made clear the ‘upper echelon’ going to be favoured monetarily (perhaps weirdly then inspiring newer pros to want to break through)

Bringing this one back up unfortunately, as the PTO have also announced that all PTO races will receive a 5% boost in points awarded. Awarding points to an invite only race would be one thing, but artificially boosting the numbers higher is just absurd. If their ranking system worked like they claim it does, they wouldn't need to do this.

And this is on top of the new that one full distance race per athlete gets a 10% score boost. That's exactly what we needed... to punish athletes who are not yet ready to start full distance racing or have decided to stick with middle distance for one reason or another. But I guess when the higher ranked athletes literally have more voting power per person than everyone else, and the highest ranked person who doesn't do fulls is Ben Kanute at #8, they're going to turn a blind eye to what this will do to the rest of the field...

Hw about them age group prices, lmao.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The extra boost for IM distance doesn't seem fair, especially since it seems like IM distance races already score higher points than 70.3 on average.

How does voting work in the PTO if you're allowed to talk about that? Were these new PTO scoring boosts put to the entire PTO for a vote and the top 10 athletes get more votes than everyone else? I'm just curious about how these decisions are made in the PTO and how much their members contribute.

Thanks for your feedback as a professional - we don't really get much of that here on Slowtwicth!
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [aeroyoost] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This sounds like how voting works.



Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [aeroyoost] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
aeroyoost wrote:
The extra boost for IM distance doesn't seem fair, especially since it seems like IM distance races already score higher points than 70.3 on average.

How does voting work in the PTO if you're allowed to talk about that? Were these new PTO scoring boosts put to the entire PTO for a vote and the top 10 athletes get more votes than everyone else? I'm just curious about how these decisions are made in the PTO and how much their members contribute.

Thanks for your feedback as a professional - we don't really get much of that here on Slowtwicth!

The last time I shared some of the "inner workings" of the PTO (if you can even call the contracts they make athletes sign that), I received a nice email from two of the board members asking to set up a phone call haha. But as far as I'm aware there is no contractual privacy expected here. There's also so little transparency even being on the inside that 90% of the stuff they announce comes as a complete surprise to us.

With this situation, I have no idea if it was the Athlete board who made this change or the non athlete board. My gut says it's probably the non athlete board based on the final point in this document detailing the 2022 ranking system:


"11.Amendments: The PTO World Ranking System may be amended or modified at any time by the determination of the non-athlete members of the PTO Board."

The voting system for the athlete board is a complete mess:

Quote:
Nomination Qualifications: Any PTO Professional is eligible to run for a position on the Athlete Board. If a PTO Professional wishes to run for election, they must be nominated by at least three other PTO Professionals who are eligible to vote for the vacant Athlete Board Member position in question. Thus, if a PTO Professional wishes to run for the vacant position that is to be elected by the Top 25 Ranked PTO Professionals, they must be nominated by at least three of the top 25 Ranked PTO Professionals. If a PTO Professional wishes to run for a vacant position that is elected by those PTO Professionals ranked from 26-50, they must be nominated by at least three PTO Professionals ranked from 26-50.

Nominations: Any PTO Professional wishing to run for an Athlete Board Member position can submit their application here.
Please only submit your nomination once you have received three endorsements from the required ranked PTO Professionals. Applications are to be submitted by December 1. Once submissions have been received, those PTO Professionals who are eligible to run will receive confirmation by December 15th.

Election: As soon as the 2021 PTO World Rankings have been finalised on December 20th, the top 50 ranked men and women PTO Professionals will be contacted with the list of eligible Athlete Board Member candidates, and voting will take place. Voting will close January 15, 2022, and new Athlete Board Members will begin their terms on February 1, 2022

Election Calculations: One man Athlete Board Member will be elected by a vote of the Top 25 Ranked Professionals. According to the By-laws, for this position votes are weighted depending on a PTO Professional’s Ranking as follows:

Rank 1-5 are allocated 7 votes each,
Rank 6-10 are allocated 5 votes each, and
Rank 11-25 are allocated 4 votes each.

One man and one woman Athlete Board Member will be elected by a vote of those PTO Professionals ranked from 26-50, with each voting PTO Professional having one equal vote.

Crystal clear?

So basically with this point boost situation, there are two ways this played out as I see it:
1. The athlete board members either voted or approved this change which disproportionally benefits them as already high ranked athletes.
2. Some non athlete entities within the PTO decided this would be a good idea and implemented the changes without the approval of the athlete board.

I can't tell which is the worse option.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Last edited by: realbdeal: Jan 25, 22 16:44
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for the insight Ben!

This does sound like a hot mess and it is not transparent on how decisions are made within the organization...that's a bummer. If I were a professional outside of the top 50, I would be super peeved if athlete board members voted to boost the points of the top 40 who were able to attend the PTO world tour. Even worse that the process is secret to it's own members so you'll never know :(
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I guess I'm wondering why anyone thinks they're going to be transparent. Aside from them saying they're an "athlete voice" and tried to act as an "Athlete's Association". Nothing they've done resembles that. It is an event promoter, backed by a billionaire. So that's about it. I've beaten the drum on this board about this, but very few in the media, or of the pros they claim to service (aside from you) call out the organization for what it is.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Haters gonna hate.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's actually a little disappointing. Didn't realize they were owned by a billionaire. They seem to give a lot of money back & have been a plus for the sport so I'd rather they continue or get some real competition before they stop doing what they're doing. The union-type messaging does maybe seem to be misleading because there doesn't seem to be real representation for dues. Top-end athletes are certainly seeing a boost & their events are putting more eyes on the sport but I don't see much benefit for low-end pros to pay dues. They still have zero representation as athletes. Plenty of motivation to work hard & crack year end rankings though. Honestly as I write this it could be a lot worse. Tons of sports don't even have advocacy organizations like this so it's still a step forward. Would like to see athletes take more charge & see it become more member driven but that's gonna be hard if there's someone at the top looking for their percentage.
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I heard on an interview a while back that the PTO is looking at a 200km race distance (4-160-40). Has anyone heard more on this?
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [Gilliga] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gilliga wrote:
I heard on an interview a while back that the PTO is looking at a 200km race distance (4-160-40). Has anyone heard more on this?

Nope....
Quote Reply
Re: PTO World Tour [Gilliga] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gilliga wrote:
I heard on an interview a while back that the PTO is looking at a 200km race distance (4-160-40). Has anyone heard more on this?

Didn't Lionel mention this?
Quote Reply

Prev Next