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Medical experts, help me understand this
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Ok, completely ignoring the chance of being crushed by huge 200psi tires and unforgiving metal parts pushed by very powerful hydraulic actuators, how in the bloody hell do folks survive this kind of stuff?

Two and half hours of flight time.
Unpressurized compartment.
Essentially zero oxygen at 35,000.
Incredibly cold subfreezing temperatures.
And the guy is still alive.

I just do not understand.

https://www.cnn.com/...-stowaway/index.html

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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I'd hazard a guess, that while it's no picnic, it's not quite as bad as all that.
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Just going with the oxygen supply and eventual brain death, do you know what the time of useful consciousness is at FL350 (35,000') ?

Just over 30 seconds.

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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Just going with the oxygen supply and eventual brain death, do you know what the time of useful consciousness is at FL350 (35,000') ?

Just over 30 seconds.

That's why I suspect it's not quite as bad as one might think it would be.
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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impressive. and how'd he get in there?

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, impressive is one word one could use.

But how does a regular human being even survive this?

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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Yes, impressive is one word one could use.

But how does a regular human being even survive this?

While I was getting ready for work this morning, Today Show said of the people who have attempted this stunt, 75% have died during flight.
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Just going with the oxygen supply and eventual brain death, do you know what the time of useful consciousness is at FL350 (35,000') ?


Just over 30 seconds.


That's why I suspect it's not quite as bad as one might think it would be.


I was wondering too...but then apparently there is about 113 or so attempts in recent years, and 27 have survived total, including one who went from SAF to the UK!
But the issue seems to be that past 22,000ft it's really hard to not pass out and then most remain passed out all flight, including when getting close to lending. So when the gear opens up, they just fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Wheel-well_stowaway
Last edited by: Francois: Nov 29, 21 6:30
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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some bottled oxygen? He likely had some planning and outside help to get into the wheel well so arranging some bottled oxygen not out of the question.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I was wondering too...but then apparently there is about 113 or so attempts in recent years, and 27 have survived total, including one who went from SAF to the UK!
But the issue seems to be that past 22,000ft it's really hard to not pass out and then most remain passed out all flight, including when getting close to lending. So when the gear opens up, they just fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Wheel-well_stowaway

Wow, thanks, fascinating link. The aeromedical physiology section is truly wild.

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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I am by no means an expert, but having said that I have heard of people drowning in very cold conditions only to later be revived. The cold seems to slow down the death situation. It preserve the brain to the point it become somewhat like cryogenics... So maybe in some cases they come close to but do not actually die of the lack of oxygen and the cold and somehow they can be revived. Just a ventured guess.
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
I am by no means an expert, but having said that I have heard of people drowning in very cold conditions only to later be revived. The cold seems to slow down the death situation. It preserve the brain to the point it become somewhat like cryogenics... So maybe in some cases they come close to but do not actually die of the lack of oxygen and the cold and somehow they can be revived. Just a ventured guess.

I had the same thought, but I think it's usually kids and a pretty intense fast freeze. Maybe a plane would be similar?
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I have two books on my shelf on the subject of the physiology of survival in extreme conditions, one more illuminating than the other (I don't recall which, it's been a minute since I read either) but both fascinating reads.

Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why

Surviving the Extremes: What Happens to the Body and Mind at the Limits of Human Endurance

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Medical experts, help me understand this [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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This is generally true; tissue damage from profound hypoxemia and the cascade of shit that follows can be mitigated somewhat through lowering core body temperature. We employ Targeted Temperature Management strategies (TTM) for post-cardiac arrest patients who rule in (i.e. no contraindications like uncontrollable bleeding/intracranial hemorrhage) for this reason. Pasted below is a brief summary of the history and physiology of the benefits of induced hypothermia. We have one patient in the rewarming phase presently.

Targeted Hypothermia Temperature Management - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)
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Introduction
The use of therapeutic hypothermia is not a new concept; its implementation can be found in literature dating back to the ancient Egyptians. The idea that cooling a person can slow biological processes and subsequently death was first described by Hippocrates (circa 450 B.C), who advised packing wounded soldiers in the snow. In the early 1800s, during the French invasion of Russia, a battlefield surgeon noticed that wounded soldiers placed closer to campfires died sooner than those placed in colder bunks. During this period, cryoanalgesia was also used for amputations, and surgeons noticed that hypothermia not only acted as an analgesic but also slowed bleeding. Clinical interest in the application of therapeutic hypothermia began in the 1930s with case reports on drowning victims who were resuscitated successfully despite prolonged asphyxia.[1]
In 1943, Temple Fay published one of the first scientific papers relating to therapeutic hypothermia. Fay observed improved outcomes after traumatic brain injury (TBI) when temperatures were lowered from 38.3 to 32.7 degrees Celsius. In the 1950s and 1960s, clinical trials using very deep hypothermia were started but abandoned soon after due to adverse effects. In the 1990s, mild hypothermia was implemented in three cardiac arrest cases after successful resuscitation, and all three made a complete recovery without residual neurological damage.[2] Therapeutic hypothermia began getting serious attention after two prospective randomized controlled trials published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2002 found significant improvements in short and long-term survival, as well as neurological outcomes.[3] Today, the term targeted temperature management (TTM) is used instead of therapeutic hypothermia. TTM can be used to prevent fever, maintain normothermia, or induce hypothermia.

Go to:
Anatomy and Physiology

Thermoregulation

Thermoregulation is the ability to maintain a steady-state core body temperature by balancing heat production and heat loss. Normal body temperature ranges from 36.1 to 37.2 degrees Celsius. The thermoregulatory center is located in the hypothalamus and constantly receives input from thermoreceptors located in the hypothalamus and the skin, which monitors the internal and external temperature. A decrease in temperature will activate various thermogenic and heat conserving responses.
The output from the hypothalamus is to the sweat glands, skin arterioles, and adrenal medulla via the sympathetic nervous system and skeletal muscles via motor neurons. Shivering thermogenesis is the primary means of heat production during hypothermia. Efferent motor nerve stimulation results in a rhythmic contraction of skeletal muscles, and since there is no work being performed, most of this energy is given off as heat. Sympathetic stimulation of superficial arteriole smooth muscle causes peripheral vasoconstriction, limiting convective heat loss and redirecting warm blood to the core. Sympathetic stimulation also causes epinephrine and norepinephrine release from the adrenal medulla, which increases basal heat production. During prolonged hypothermia, the hypothalamus stimulates thyroid hormone production from the anterior pituitary gland.

Mechanism of Action

Targeted temperature management improves neurological outcomes and decreases mortality through multiple mechanisms that alter the cascade of deleterious metabolic, cellular, and molecular changes that occur following global ischemia. The three main temperature-dependent pathological processes that hypothermia acts on are ischemic brain injury, reperfusion injury, and secondary brain damage.[4] Hypothermia decreases the metabolic rate by 5% to 7% per 1 C decrease in core body temperature.[5] This is one of the main mechanisms underlying its protective effects since oxygen deprivation and the accumulation of lactate and other waste products of anaerobic metabolism are central to the progression of ischemic cerebral cell death. The accumulation of aspartate, glutamate, and other excitatory neurotransmitters also plays a significant role in neuronal death following cerebral ischemia. The severity of excitotoxicity and neuronal damage is proportional to the quantity of these neurotransmitters.[6] In animal models, it was shown that the release of glutamate following global cerebral ischemia is temperature-dependent. A mild to moderate hypothermia is associated with the most profound reduction in glutamate levels compared to severe hypothermia and hyperthermia.[7] Hypothermia decreases free radical production and suppresses the various inflammatory processes that occur following global ischemia and reperfusion.

Reperfusion causes a massive increase in the production of free radicals such as hydrogen peroxide, superoxide, nitric oxide, and hydroxyl radicals. The high levels overwhelm the defensive antioxidant mechanisms throughout the body and cause the peroxidation of lipids, proteins, and nucleic acids, which contribute to neuronal damage.[8] One study using an in vitro model of cerebral ischemia found that the neuroprotective effects of hypothermia were associated with a significant reduction in nitric oxide and superoxide formation when temperatures were reduced to 31 to 33 C.[9] The inflammatory response that follows reperfusion has both beneficial and detrimental effects, with some mediators being transiently neuroprotective. However, this exaggerated response may last up to 5 days, and persistently high levels of cytokines are destructive over this protracted time course. Hypothermia suppresses the inflammatory cascade and, in turn, prevents the exacerbation of cerebral injury by inflammation.


The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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