People will spend money on M-Dot tattoos but won't buy a decent set of cycling shorts. The vast majority of amateur athletes are pro M-Dot Tattoos.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Doing an IM on no training sound much harder than doing one fit.

Who cares (obviously some here do). If u do IM to boost your ego and brag to your friends I guess I can understand why someone doing one on no training could hurt your feelings.

Sub 10 hours or 17 hours its still a heck of an accomplishment. Maybe people looking down their noses at people doing it slow are a good example of the 'pretentious' triathletes this thread is referring to....

I do think there is a lot of pretentiousness in triathlon. Ironman has done an amazing job of building up how “difficult” an IM is. “Most difficult single day endurance race in the world”, which its not but thats beside the point. Then you get thousands of people who couldnt even make JV teams in middle school and high school finishing an IM and drinking the kool aid and all of a sudden they have “accomplished” more than runners or swimmer or bikers. The type of person who wears a “you finished a marathon thats cute” t shirt. These are the people in my experience that are dicks to those who dont do triathlons or do less than IM distances. Its never the people in the front of the pack, its the people with a chip on their shoulder who suddenly finished an IM and are getting their first taste of athletic accomplishment.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

To be fair, I've seen this same kind of attitude in the running world. You get folks who will complete a marathon in 5:30 hours to check it off their list and will have an air of superiority just because they completed a marathon, even though the person they are looking down on might be a 17:00 5k guy and is consistently putting up podium finishes at their races.

Most athletes that I've met with a Mdot tattoo, or any tattoo in relation to an athletic achievement, usually have an interesting back story as to why that achievement meant so much to them. Every now and then I encounter the guy who got it just to "be in the club" or "I want people to see my Mdot tattoo as I fly by them on my bike"(yes, ive actually heard that one). 99% of the time is people who are humble and are thankful that they had the chance to take on a difficult task and complete it.

The person you mention who "couldn't even make JV teams in middle school" is the exact person who I think should get a Mdot tattoo if they put in months and months, or years, of hard work to accomplish an athletic achievement. They've probably spent their entire life being told they aren't athletic, so for that person to work up the courage to take on a task such as an Ironman, I say go get the ink. They could have decided to go the opposite direction and just given up on physical activity altogether. I support those people 1000% as long as they don't venture into the realm of elitism that you described in the second half of your post.

Yup you hit the nail on the head.

Parkland wrote:

To be fair, I've seen this same kind of attitude in the running world. You get folks who will complete a marathon in 5:30 hours to check it off their list and will have an air of superiority just because they completed a marathon, even though the person they are looking down on might be a 17:00 5k guy and is consistently putting up podium finishes at their races.

With running most people (even non-runners) know that there are a ton of unfit people doing marathons and they have some idea of what a good time is. We had a team from work doing a marathon all dressed up as disney characters. No-one was under the impression they were elite/accomplished runners. Ironman is different. People have no idea what a good Ironman time is. They think just to complete one is an achievement in itself. As Chuy said "Ironman has done an amazing job of building up how “difficult” an IM is. “Most difficult single day endurance race in the world”. Which we all know is crap. Joe Public don't.

Yeah, I can see that, although I still think a ton of people who aren’t in the fitness world hear of someone doing a marathon and they’re amazed that someone could run/walk 26.2 miles, or they confuse it with a 5k :D. Though I do agree that Joe Public is probably more astonished by the thought of someone finishing an Ironman.

This might be a stand alone conversation in itself, but i came into triathlon and Ironman in the last 4 years and the mantra I’ve heard is “Anything is Possible”. I think Ironman is trying to shake off the “Ironman is super hard” reputation to bring in the more casual athletes. I think it’s also part of the reason why so many of the long time triathletes have been frustrated with the IM brand races and swims being canceled or courses modified to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It’s a business after all and the more accessible people find 70.3 and 140.6 races to be, the more potential customers Ironman can bring in.

“It’s a business after all and the more accessible people find 70.3 and 140.6 races to be, the more potential customers Ironman can bring in.”

Exactly, and if we want to have more races available to us then the sport needs to attract more people. From May to October I can still find some sort of road race every weekend. Every year I’m seeing fewer triathlons offered. IM could care less about any triathlon but theirs, but if they can pull more people in, then I’ll drink the Ironman kool-aid (actually Gatorade).

Not just gatorade, gatorade endurance ;)

I'm lucky in that there is a pretty active local tri scene around me, but those races are limited to sprint and olympic distance. There is one local half distance in the spring, but it usually falls on or around my wedding anniversary and I havent been able to convince my wife that a triathlon is an appropriate activity for anniversary weekend. If I want to do 70.3 or 140.6 distance, I have to pony up and send the money to the big boys.

Check out the Kona 2019 video on IM's YouTube channel. The first few minutes are so full of hyperbole that I couldn't finish watching it.

I think if you are honest with yourself you will admit it's all about diminishing your ego.

I know guys who do their first marathon and do it in 5 hours. Sure it's slow for you and me but they are proud as punch and tell everyone they come across because they are excited. Do I be a wanker and try to diminish their achievement, or let them enjoy their moment in the sun?

So what if someone goes to Kona on a legacy spot or corporate allocation, at least they are involved and doing something rather than being a fat ass sitting on the couch.

Why should I be bothered by someone boasting about a win when there are only two in an AG? What difference does it make to me?

If there are only 2 competitors in the AG it must be a very old AG in which case they can brag all they like, or it's a 2 bit local tri and they are probably newbs who don't know any better and are stoked, again I'd humour their excitement and enthusiasm and try to foster it into a long duration of participation where they realise how deep the field can be.

If its a deliberate act of trying to take undue credit well again I guess I'd feel sorry for them, as their level of self esteem must be terribly low. Plenty of people online with low self esteem..

Put it this way, if you had a whinge to 99.9% of the population that people doing a 3.9k swim, 180k ride and 42k run was easy and people doing it slowly and being proud of it somehow detracted from your own achievement.... Well I reckon they might say you were a pretentious wanker..

No matter what way you look at it completing an IM is a huge achievement and something people should be proud of and us as a community should also be proud of.

Boo hoo but it makes my achievements seem less hard core.... Boo hoo...

Call me a wanker, but if you've walked the marathon - pretty much in line with the race plan, at that - in carbon-plated $250 supershoes, I struggle not to ridicule that.

A superbike at least looks good.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

How thick do you think these younger athletes are that they'll can't see through this sort of nonsense? They are not going to be ruined by poor quality social media - for the most part that's what social media is and they'll be well aware of that. Anyone knowingly trying to overstate their accomplishments in a deceptive way are really just undermining their own integrity. It should be of little importance to the rest of us. The sad thing is that it matters so much to them what others think, and in this respect you apparently are the same as they are. Sure, you're not being dishonest about it, but needing others to know about this thing you did and how impressive it is, well, that's kinda sad. Respect yourself. That'll do.

Since you asked, you’re a wanker (first heard that term 40 years ago visiting London).
I run with a local group, we have all types of runners. We get new runners all the time who want to do the local half or full marathon. All they want to do is finish. Many have never really run before and most are not that fit. Then you get to know them, hear their back stories, listen to their struggles, the hardships that they’ve already overcome, and how they want to accomplish something to give them some sort of a feeling of success. Not knowing why anyone in particular chose to do a marathon or Ironman I choose to offer encouragement to all regardless.

Not sure you can have it both ways.
On one hand, you've been involved with and/or seen more group wrecks than you can count. On the other hand, you are leery of riding with people you don't know so you stick to rides with people you know - people you are comfortable riding with. Presumably, you don't experience unsafe rides any more (sans racing).

If you only ride with blokes you know, where's the a-hole behavior come in? A-hole behavior is yelling, bitching, correcting, etc.

I've been riding for many, many years. With countless group rides under the belt and I've never seen a pile up nor been involved in one. Yeah, the less self-aware riders can bug me for not pointing out hazards or riding shitty lines but I understand that going into the ride. Their inexperience or thoughtlessness isn't something I need to correct in a dick-ish way. If it bugs me enough, I'll wait for a stop, coffee break (whatever) and ask them if they'd like some advice. if they say yes, I explain myself. If not, fine. It's up to me at that point to ride with them again or not. If I ride again, I know what I'm getting into.

If you're a dick on the bike, you're probably a dick off the bike. And vice versa.

Def NOT calling you an idiot, Zed

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Yes I’m a wanker, and pray tell did you read my post?

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I think you know the types of people this thread was about, and it's not the ones you describe.

There's a big difference in being happy/proud and acting like a an elitist douche.

Im sure you've met the type at breakfast who only listens to others in order to come up with a way to make every conversation about them. That's the type I'm picturing. "Oh yeah, that's cool. I did that race 3 times. And let me tell you..."

Yes, but I read it incorrectly, guess that makes me a wanker also!

Cheers

Pathlete, I completely agree. I’ve been riding for years, with every skill level, and not once have I seen a time to yell at someone in a dickish way while on the bike. Yeah I’ve seen people screw up, but I find it a time for guidance instead. Sure there are beginners who need to work on their skill, but most all of them will not join the advanced riders until they are confident their athleticism and skill are up to the task.
Being a dick to others is a good way to discourage new riders from progressing. I had a few bad experiences when I first started. Not because I was unsafe but because I was a fat guy who’d never been an athlete previously. I recall a group of us stopped for another rider who had a mechanical. I didn’t know where we were but I stopped because I didn’t want this person to be alone on the side of the road. A few others also stopped to help. After the mechanical was dealt with, a few guys decided to put the hammer down to catch back up to the group. The group ride had been listed as a casual no drop ride. I couldn’t hang on and the lead guy kept yelling at me “stay on my damn wheel or you are going to be left out here”. The guy was genuinely getting pissed at me. And I’ve seen other experienced cyclists talk to less strong, or less experienced, riders in a similar manner. That’s a great thing to say to a new person trying to get into cycling. Makes you feel like you are the entire reason the group is being held back. That day, I told myself if I ever become a faster rider, I will never treat someone like this who I know is trying their best.

I have found that you can put one bag inside another bag, inside another bag............Then you only have to throw one bag away.