At the end of the day, none of this is going to affect any of us --- except maybe me, as it will be a whole new category of people that I've gotten beaten by when I run it in September

I'll make sure to get pix of the Non-Binary podiums for you, too

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

The gist I’m getting is that if your not non binary you can’t sign up. So what exactly is non binary and how does one prove or disprove it? Like how or why can’t a person pick that category on race day for any reason they want.

Currently the cats are male or female and set to how you register. So is non binary going to become a new category that your auto put in when you identify as not male not female but non binary division?

What if your “male” but want to be in the non binary cat? Can you do that?

So I find it hard to see inclusion and then be told “no no only X can enter this category” like previous poster said. What if the entire race wanted to do the non binary cat just to provide total support for the ones who’s always felt different? Is that good or “dishonest”?

I just find it hard to say NO to someone who wants to sign up for that category when the gist of said category is what it is. Seems he previous poster is proving to not be inclusive when apparently you can enter said subjective category if you can somehow “prove it”. Seems odd line of thinking to me for an category that is as subjective as it is.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

When registration opens up, I'll send/post screenshots

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This is where you are confused. Where was the "universal definition of marriage" ever agreed upon? It wasn't, even though people tried to use ridiculous arguments like "the bible says this, therefore it universally is applicable to all humans". People tried to construct a false, slippery slope argument, because there simply wasn't any good reason to not allow marriages between people of the same sex.

The trans and non-binary thing itself isn't slippery either (there is no universal reason that humans should not be allowed to classify themselves into any category they want). The question here isn't about the merits or allowability of people being able to identify how they want, its simply a practical question (and this is where the slippery slope is created) is what is the limit of feasible categories to make special accomodations for to allow the conduct of normal business in a reasonable way.

For example, we now have "male", "female" and in many cases "family" bathrooms (And also handicapped accessible, although usually they are shared with the corresponding sex bathroom). Now some people want "trans" bathrooms. Okay, that means a business is supposed to have four different bathrooms. Is that feasible? What if someone says we need a fifth category? At what point do we stop, or say, hey we are all human we just need "bathroom" and everyone uses it without having a huge row and adding more and more bathrooms. One could say that in the past 50 years we have more than doubled the number of bathroom categories (although in fairness, we used to have "colored only" bathrooms, we wisely decided these weren't necessary, so it isn't a monotonic increase).

And back to the question at hand.

1. Do you think we need separate "trans/non-binary" restrooms, or is it okay for these people to use the existing restroom they feel most comfortable with?

2. If you don't think we need separate "trans/non-binary" restrooms, why do we need separate "trans/non-binary" race categories? Why not use the same compromise, that we allow these people to pick either (as opposed to the rest of us, who don't get a choice at all) category that they feel comfortable with. If you are comfortable sharing a bathroom with people, I can't see why you would be uncomfortable being told to compete against them? Should the non-binary people be banished to a separate locker room if it is decided they can't compete against the rest of?

We should listen to different peoples concerns
We should also consider common sense and a limit on the number of special rules and categories in life.

There is a lot in that post but let me try to cover it all.

To your first point, no one said anything about a "universal definition of marriage" that I recall so I'm not sure where you are quoting that from. What I do know is that here in Australia, both the legal and dictionary definition, as well as the generally accepted defintion, of marriage was based on one man and one woman. So the word marriage quite literally had to be redefined in order to accomodate marriage between same sex couples.

The point being that the slippery slope argument in relation to marriage was not about creating a new category but about radically redefining a word. If the key elements of a marriage were that it was between one man and one woman, and that is changed to two people regardless of gender, there is no logical reason to exclude arrangements between more than two people.

1. I don't know what the obsession is with bathrooms when it comes to debates around trans/non-binary issues. We all use the same toilets in aeroplanes, the same porta potties on race days, I think toilets in general could simply move to being unisex with some accommodations made for disabled use and baby change rooms. There are ways to design toilets to ensure the privacy and safety of all.

2. Race categories are very different to bathrooms. We all pee and poo in a very similar way so there is no inherent advantage or disadvantage in well designed unisex bathrooms. However there are biological differences between males and females (don't shoot the messenger) that give biological males an advantage over biological females. In my view it is not fair to make female athletes compete against male athletes for these reasons. That includes biologocal males who identify as women or non-binary. These athletes may also be disadvantaged competing in the male category if they are taking hormones so maybe an open or non-binary category adds a level of fairness.

What's the actual question at hand???

You have some worry that a race that has a non-binary category is going to lead to business installing fourth and fifth bathrooms. You seem to worry that a non-binary category today means that tomorrow you'll be able to show up at a race and declare that everyone has different life experiences and therefore deserves their own category and prize and no one will be able to tell you no (weeeeeeeeeee!). You argued before that it didn't make business sense to offer a third category of prize money. Others worry that there is no way to tell who should be in a nonbinary category or that we should protect nonbinary people by not allowing the category in the first place.


And yet a race has decided that it makes business sense to offer a non-binary category. Good for them.


I'm with Randmart and am glad a Philly race is doing this. I wouldn't normally run this but will this year both because it's going back to a local race and because they're trying this out.


Also, there's nothing common sense about the logic you're trying to employ re: bathrooms. For one, and I'm happy to be corrected, I don't think there are people asking for what you refer to as "trans bathrooms." Transgender and nonbinary are different things, and w/r/t to people who identify as a gender different than their biological sex, it is more common to want to use the bathroom of the gender with which they identify. Non-binary people typically don't want a specific "non-binary" bathroom; the general trend is toward single-person bathrooms, like the "Family bathroom" that anyone can use (as opposed to a bathroom intended to be used only by a specific gender). At any rate, that's three bathrooms. Not four, five, or six race categories.

There IS no question

PDR didn't ASK "Is this a good idea?" They just went ahead and did it

This reboot could be a success, or it could fail miserably, but I don't think anyone can reasonably credit or blame the outcome on the Non-Binary option

All the panty-twisting here on Slowtwitch isn't going to make any difference, I think I'm safe to say

dand- PM me as we get closer to race day, and we'll meet up at the merch table or something

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin