i'll say this: that ali chap is really good at sports. and that lucy too, now that i think of it.

like with eliud, i suppose the argument is that it won't "count" if it isn't held under strict race conditions. but i also think - again, like eliud - it could be interesting purely from the curiosity/physiology experiment angle, and maybe it'll open the floodgates for faster 'official' performances. also, maybe in a mid-/post-COVID world, this is how a marquee athlete like ali makes a nice living in the sport. for a good while there eliud was working full-time on the sub-2 project, not having to scratch it out on the road-racing circuit with the riff-raff. and i'd say it panned out nicely for him!

(i used to live around the corner from eliud in kenya, and his house was a whole hell of a lot nicer than mine.)

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

So....here's what they say will get sub 8:
It will be an almighty challenge, with organisers claiming Brownlee will need to swim at the pace of an Olympic open-water medallist, cycle at an average speed of more than 30mph and run a sub 2hr 30min marathon.

And here's how AB will be "aided":

swim with a wetsuit so thick that it's illegal under any racing rules.

bike draft an TdF style peloton for 112mi not having to put your nose to the wind once

run no mention of what they'll do for aids on that part.


I mean ok. This does go along the lines though of how IM has it's record. Isn't the IM bike record from a 94mi course? So ummm "shrug"?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

7 hours will not be that hard actually under the parameters he laid out, but will make for good press. Not anywhere near the 2 hour marathon that was just set either.

So I guess all you out there that were not convinced that thicker is better is wetsuit swimming speed, can now put that to rest. All those new fancy 3mm suits that feel good on, just are not as fast as the old Water Rover at 10mm. He will also need to swim behind someone that can give him that extra 3 to 5 seconds per hundred for a draft, and that ought to put him under 40 minutes or so for the swim.

The bike is where it will be very easy, holding 30mph+ in a big peloton will be super easy for him. He will be able to drink and eat all he wants during this time of a very low HR.

After that a 2;30 marathon will be a chip shot for him, wouldn't be surprised if he went under 2;25 even.

You just find a nice flat loop with perfect weather and it will be a slam dunk. If he wanted to make it a real challenge and really fun for us fans, he could try it on the actual Kona Ironman course. Now that would be a real challenge..

I thought the best part was that Alister mentioned that his brother Johnny was going to be helping him on the swim and the run, though "he just doesn't know it yet."

From an execution standpoint, I find it interesting that these well known athletes are going to be giving up one IM's worth of training and racing out of their schedule in order to do this, and you only get so many per year/in your career.

Kipchoge could afford to take out a marathon out of his schedule because there was obviously sponsor incentives (Nike/Ineos) to pay him what he would have made anyway (or more) if he were successful. What I didn't see was a sponsor footing the bill for Alistair and Lucy.

I took the opposite approach. There's no way in hell AB or Lucy or Blu ain't being well paid whether to "sacrifice" a year of racing (I also don't think they actually have to sacrifice all that much because I dont see them sitting out a full year next year for this project only).

This project is being backed by a billionaire that runs the charity that is "sponsoring" the project. They'll be paid very very well imo.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

They are not giving up the whole year at all.They have five or six months after Kona to switch to the Sub Challenge focus. Brownlee says it in his profile..

"“I’m hoping 2021 will be a big and busy racing year for me. After Kona my focus will switch entirely to the Sub7 project. It’s great to have this new and exciting project to look forward to in 2022.”
ALISTAIR BROWNLEE — Sub 7 Sub 8
.
.

I think they will be being paid shitloads, more than any individual race they would do, and if they get the record there will no doubt be bonus also.

The other part in the article I thought funny, was the emphasis on hm being aero, and saving as many watts as possible. I guess the writer is not a bike racer, no need to be aero, or low when you are in the middle of a 20 person pack. Just get on a super comfortable road bike that is light, wear comfortable clothes and helmet, and sit with a 120 HR doing 30 mph. See that in tour riders all the time, that is how most can go so far for so long, with massive bursts to break it up from time to time..

I would think if your trying to max out every second on the course your going to have to go full team time trial mode and just aero the fuck out of the 112mi. Like and that's not even for him necessarily, that's for the guys that have to pull him, now obviously if everyone is TT'ing so will he. But that's the plan in action I would make.

4 groups doing essentially an 1 hour tt and then the next group picks up on the next lap or at mile X along the course, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A team TT could be the decision if they have limited riders, but he should never take a pull or have his nose in the wind. Reality is just the pace that is set. It has to be comfortable for him at a low HR. Pretty sure if he had a bunch of good riders, they could do this pace on whatever bikes, just makes it harder on them if they do road bikes. But they are not the ones being timed, so just depends o what his resources are for this adventure.

A team TT is fast, but would not block as much wind as a big peloton would, and you could have several in the peloton on TT bikes to make the pace setting even easier on them. What they have to figure out is the pace AB can hold relatively easily, maybe it is 31mph+, but guessing closer to 30. It just has to be the pace where he gets off the bike and just feels a tiny bit tired,, and really warmed up for a good steady paced marathon. 2;30 should be quite achievable for him at his level, and if all goes well in the previous two events, I really think he can go faster..

There are a bunch of guys that could do this too with the resources, but looks like he is getting the nod, so good for him. Bet he makes a ton of money off it if successful, probably see him on every morning and evening talk show for a few weeks after that. Unlike the guy that wins Kona, who gets an interview in his hometown and a small press release on the AP...

+1

Between sitting in a pack during the bike (32mph, probably on under 250W) and much faster transitions than a typical IM t1/t2 there's 35min there alone.

IMO, not that impressive (more of a publicity stunt) since there are probably a dozen pros who could go sub-7 under these rules. There's no real "barrier" being broken (unlike, say sub-8 in Kona).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Idk, I guess I'm doubting his full IM run ability because if you give it
45 swim
30.55mph bike (3:40)
2:30 marathon

that's 6:58 w/o transitions.


IE- his bike split will basically only predict if he has lost it already if it's too slow that he simply cant make up the time.

Where is he going to make up time? Is he closer to 2:25 you think?(granted we are basically like 2 years from the actual race apparently)?

I get that he is going to "draft" on the bike, but I mean at some point just swimming and biking are fatiguing no matter how little you put on the body so at some point X pace is as fast as he can run.


But BEST case what are we predicting/seeing as splits?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i love ST - you guys are hilarious!

yeah, sub-7 will be a cakewalk!

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

It would be fun to recruit Team Ineos, Jumbo and UAE Emirates for a training ride at 32mph and then have a bunch of tri pros tuck inside as you mentioned. Then let's get to the run and have a real drag race on the marathon (versus a chip shot for a 2:30 jog).

They're planning a 3:45 bike (30 mph) and a 2:30 run for the men. I am pretty sure, although it hasn't been disclosed, that they'll be swimming with a substantial current. 35-40' no probs.

The organizers might also exclude transitions from this one. Because they can. They make their own "rules"! Since they're planning bike speed 12% above record levels, which would require a ~30% power bump if it wasn't for drafting, why not just put Alistair on an e-bike. Or put fins on them for the swim. I mean why not?

The whole thing is so ridiculous, I hope they'll call it off and let us all forget it. Only a total ignoramus who has never heard about triathlon would compare an attempt like this to an Ironman.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Frank Cardia approves of this plan!

I've always sorta wondered like from an athlete's psyche prospective.....when does the "aids" get too much? Like at what point in creating aids does an athlete say "wow wow wow what are we doing here". But is it all excused because this is an "experiment" so "rules" don't apply here so we can all feel good and proper about the attempt? Everyone is making bank and the sport is getting "coverage" so we just all good with it all?


Is that where we are now at with these "impossible" attempts.....we can accept A B C aid but if they do D by riding with a motor, we'll then say "too much, now it''s cheating" all the while none of the aids they are allowing is anywhere close to an race allowance.

Idk, it's just funny to read some of the people on here and their allowance of this attempt because it's not apparently an "official" event, even though you know damn well it'll be PR'd to death as some official attempt at the record, and if done be treated like it was some "official event" that isn't to be questioned.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sebastian Kulczyk, richest man in Poland worth $1.5 BILLION.

Honestly, this whole thing screamed Bahrain Endurance since a bunch of the athletes on the Pho3nix Foundation team also happen to be on the Bahrain team, then Macca was involved...so you get the point. There's definitely a Middle Eastern Prince likely involved too.

All these pro athletes off in the UAE training and posting about it on instagram? Someone invited them to go out there mid-pandemic to escape lockdowns.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I tend to look on the bright side for this type of thing: It's a spectacle and we should treat it as such. Besides, unlike with a marathon, there really isn't a record books anyway.

Plus - let's consider what it will do for the sport. Having Brownlee and LCB do the talk-show rounds will only bring more people into the sport, and I consider that a good thing.

This won’t do 10% of the media + world reaction compared to the “epic” story of AB throwing his brother across a finish line. This is going to fill tri and endurance media cus this will be an great story to follow but world news and breakfast w LCB on all the Euro news feeds? I ain’t buying.


Cool story for tri? Yes

Epic level of media coverage for tri? No way in hell

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If you take the "no rules" thing to its conclusion, they could swim in a 10-yd pool, and just push off the wall a whole lotta times. And the pool could be at the top of a mountain, so then they bike and run downhill for the rest. On a day with a tailwind. Obviously this project won't work with traditional rules, but they have to draw the line somewhere, and it will be interesting to see where they draw it.

Now, what would be a really cool format would be if they did it as an actual race, but with prize purses for athletes based on their order at the end of the swim and at the end of the bike, as well as at the end of the run. Everyone starts together, like with any real race, but you do not have to finish in order to be eligeable for the first two prize purses.

That way you could still get world-class swimmers leading the swim. Top triathletes who were not going for sub-7 / sub-8 could choose to do the swim/bike and earn some $$ competing for placement at the end of the bike while still pulling along the people who were doing the whole thing. Then the people who were still going after the bike would duke it out on the run - but racing against each other, not just the clock. With a bonus for anyone who went sub 7 / sub 8, of course!

Also, people wouldn't have to say beforehand how much of the race they were planning to do. There are so many ways the dynamics could play out. I think this would be exciting to watch regardless of whether or not it was on an artificially fast course.

Cheers,
Ginger

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https://www.instagram.com/gingerhowellracing/
If you find yourself thinking "What if I can't", instead think "What if I can!"