Can someone explain to me the economics of why leasing doesn't exist for medium to high end bikes? There is no shortage of liquidity in the second hand bike market and certainly no shortage of people out there looking for n+1 bikes. Why don't the large manufacturers essentially institutionalize the second hand market, lease out their top end models and sell them 2-3 years later to chumps like me that cant afford the $13k price tag. I don't think you can be a cyclist if you don't get upgrade envy, so it would afford buyers the opportunity to upgrade to the newest tech every 2-3 years.
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Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
I don’t have the answer but have definitely thought about this. I absolutely would do this—the chance to get a new bike every 3 years would be great. I’m thinking that the market on resale just isn’t there though the way it is with vehicles. But, prices could be adjusted accordingly.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [DFW_Tri]
[ In reply to ]
Seems like The Pros Closet could corner the market with this. While there are some people who are brand loyal, I would never want to commit to a brand for a few years without seeing their new offerings. TPC does have some new bikes, but if people would be willing to lease used bikes, there would be a nonstop flow of solid variety to upgrade to.
At the same time, if customers are willing to buy a new bike every 3 years, why bother offering them a cheaper option?
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At the same time, if customers are willing to buy a new bike every 3 years, why bother offering them a cheaper option?
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [DFW_Tri]
[ In reply to ]
Yea maybe have overestimated the resale market. And being purely mechanical, bikes wont depreciate as fast as cars. i.e. if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running.
While a broken clock is right twice a day, I am definitely not smart enough to have found this big a hole in the bike market so it is certainly not a viable option, just curious as to why because I would love for it to be the case.
While a broken clock is right twice a day, I am definitely not smart enough to have found this big a hole in the bike market so it is certainly not a viable option, just curious as to why because I would love for it to be the case.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [realbdeal]
[ In reply to ]
That was my other consideration. Its probably just too good of a market selling full price bikes and not dealing with the second hand market at all. People keep buying them so no point in stopping
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
I can't imagine the "maintenance" and "wear and tear" aspects to leasing a bike.
You get the people doing this saying "well, you didn't use our super special major expensive chain lube every 5 miles..........so that will be $1000 for new Dura Ace cassette, chainrings, and chain....plus labor".
Then the whole OEM saddle not working for most thing. Or needing to change parts out for fit.
Plus, I thought a lot of car leases were designed to incentivize you to buy out the lease at the end at a clear loss over buying new?
Label me a skeptic.
You get the people doing this saying "well, you didn't use our super special major expensive chain lube every 5 miles..........so that will be $1000 for new Dura Ace cassette, chainrings, and chain....plus labor".
Then the whole OEM saddle not working for most thing. Or needing to change parts out for fit.
Plus, I thought a lot of car leases were designed to incentivize you to buy out the lease at the end at a clear loss over buying new?
Label me a skeptic.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [burnthesheep]
[ In reply to ]
Yea you would probably have to get fit for a bike first (which you should be doing anyways) or you are just leasing frameset and drivetrain and the rest comes from you/the bike shop you are leasing through. As for maintenance, it would probably necessitate getting some of Phil Gaimons bike insurance or something of that nature and the lease would most likely include 6mo maintenance schedule as it is still their bike which should keep you riding for at least 3 years on the same setup.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
Hingus wrote:
Yea maybe have overestimated the resale market. And being purely mechanical, bikes wont depreciate as fast as cars. i.e. if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running. While a broken clock is right twice a day, I am definitely not smart enough to have found this big a hole in the bike market so it is certainly not a viable option, just curious as to why because I would love for it to be the case.
That's certainly not the case so long as we define "worth" by market value. Cars aren't "worse" for having been driven off the lot. A car with 200 miles that was purchased and titled is worth markedly less than a car with 300 miles that's never been titled.
People won't spend full price on something that's used.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
Let's do some quick back of the envelop math.
New Bike: 13,000
Resale value after 3 years: 6000 (maybe)
(13,000 - 6,000) / (3 x 12) = 200
From that 200 you need to add some profit margin + maintenance on expensive parts + insurance
Thus, you probably need to rent the bike for 300/months if you want any hope of making a profit.
As a consumer at that price are you renting or buying? And you will still need to pay a fortune of bike fit and customization...
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
Hingus wrote:
if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running.This is simply not true. Have you ever tried to resell a barely used or even “new” bike? In my experience, The value ( of at least the frame) depreciates immediately much like a car.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Geronimo]
[ In reply to ]
Not to mention that a brand new bike on the showroom floor loses a good chunk of its value just as soon as the next year's model rolls in, even if its the exact same bike except for color/graphics...
"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
Hingus wrote:
Yea maybe have overestimated the resale market. And being purely mechanical, bikes wont depreciate as fast as cars. i.e. if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running. While a broken clock is right twice a day, I am definitely not smart enough to have found this big a hole in the bike market so it is certainly not a viable option, just curious as to why because I would love for it to be the case.
holy cow THIS is why people price used bikes the way they do! this is why i laugh at most listings on stevebay, facebook marketplace, ebay, craigslist, etc.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
Hingus wrote:
Yea maybe have overestimated the resale market. And being purely mechanical, bikes wont depreciate as fast as cars. i.e. if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running. While a broken clock is right twice a day, I am definitely not smart enough to have found this big a hole in the bike market so it is certainly not a viable option, just curious as to why because I would love for it to be the case.
1. I can't fathom how you think a luxury good depreciates less than a method of transportation.
2. With decent credit, you can already get 0% or near 0% financing for high-end bikes from Affirm. Besides tax benefits (which are rarely equitably distributed to the lessee), there's no point to dealing with title, insurance, maintenance, dealer network, etc. and having to bear the costs of that as a consumer.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Yep, it's amazing how aspirational some people are with their pricing. When I was a kid looking to upgrade my first bike and sell the old, the lbs advised start at 50% and go up or down from there based on age, condition, upgrades. It's a mantra I've stuck to and always shifted kit in a reasonable timeframe. Just see so many bikes on eBay gradually being reduced over several months with no interest.
Cars are different as warranties these days are transferable. The only bike brand I know of that do that are Parlee. Plus a lot of bike shops do 0%apr finance, unlike cars, so leasing would make no sense.
I do think there is a bigger market for the bike exchange shops like pros closet that can offer some warranty on used bikes and bits, almost like a used and approved vouched for by the manufacturer, especially with the somewhat high price of bikes these days.
Cars are different as warranties these days are transferable. The only bike brand I know of that do that are Parlee. Plus a lot of bike shops do 0%apr finance, unlike cars, so leasing would make no sense.
I do think there is a bigger market for the bike exchange shops like pros closet that can offer some warranty on used bikes and bits, almost like a used and approved vouched for by the manufacturer, especially with the somewhat high price of bikes these days.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
Hingus wrote:
bikes wont depreciate as fast as cars. i.e. if you ride your Sagan SL7 off the bike shop lot it will still be worth every penny of $13k vs a car that loses value with every minute the engine is running.holy cow THIS is why people price used bikes the way they do! this is why i laugh at most listings on stevebay, facebook marketplace, ebay, craigslist, etc.
Of course the reference to overpriced used bikes was to a Spesh. Survey says the second-most likely brand to be quoted in that sentence was Trek.
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Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [M----n]
[ In reply to ]
Right- But a Specialized or a Trek will retain more value than a lesser known brand.
And most custom bikes will depreciate more than that. Save for a few outliers like a Richard Sachs.
And most custom bikes will depreciate more than that. Save for a few outliers like a Richard Sachs.
Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [bootsie_cat]
[ In reply to ]
Resale value for the seller, maybe.
You can get a lot more value for money in buying a used bike from any number of other brands.
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You can get a lot more value for money in buying a used bike from any number of other brands.
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Re: Economics of Bike Leasing [Hingus]
[ In reply to ]
My friend here in Germany leased his high-end Ridley (>12000$) bike. As his „company bike“ he can set it against tax liability in only 3 years and then lease a new one. There are special leasing companies for such kind of deals.
Most hi-end bikes have an "early adopter" issue. That $13K S-works a few years (say 3) down the line will have performance equivalent to the current $8K non-S-works model.....plus it has several years of wear and tear, so you might get $6K for it.
As a dealer for this to be worth my time, I need to get it back for $4K so I can make ~30% margin selling it for $6k....that means the original lease has to cover $9K over 3 years (so $3K/yr, or in the neighborhood of $300/month as a lease payment assuming no $ at signing).
Note that all the assumptions above are pretty optimistic (the required margin is probably >30%), and don't cover issues like parts substitution/replacement, and permanent mods like cut steerers. With the above math, most folks would just buy or finance a new bike.
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As a dealer for this to be worth my time, I need to get it back for $4K so I can make ~30% margin selling it for $6k....that means the original lease has to cover $9K over 3 years (so $3K/yr, or in the neighborhood of $300/month as a lease payment assuming no $ at signing).
Note that all the assumptions above are pretty optimistic (the required margin is probably >30%), and don't cover issues like parts substitution/replacement, and permanent mods like cut steerers. With the above math, most folks would just buy or finance a new bike.
ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)