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1 hour a day cycling
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Hi,

Do you have some advice to a time crunched hobby biker? I have 60 minutes every morning to hop on the trainer on weekdays, and 90 minutes on weekends.
My plan is to:
* 2 x quality sessions: one on Thuesday, one on Saturday. Long sustained higher end of SS, right at FTP, 50 rpm, overunders, VO2 Max, etc., depending on the periodisation, and by periodisation I mean: more SS/FTP during base, more anaerob / race specific during spec phase.
* 2 x sweetspot sessions: some, sum of 20-50 min sweetspot efforts sprinkled into Z1 / Z2 rides the day following the quality days
* 2 x Z1 / Z2 recovery ride after sweetspot days
* 1 x Z1 / Z2 rides with 20-30 seconds of 150-200% FTP every 5 minutes before thuesday quality day

No rest days (maybe one on down weeks), since this is only 8 hours a week, without long rides.

2-3 weeks on, 1 week off. Off = time in intense section is 70% (so 30% down), doing Z1 / Z2 rides. So off weeks are 8 hours too, just 30% less in intensity.

Based on a few years into running, I'm more of a SS / threshold guy, rather than polarized method with "lots" ("lots" in the 8-10 hours / week context) of easy rides.

If I'm able to fit in, I'd add running on the quality days, making the hard days hard, the easy days easy. For example: 3x10 minutes @ threshold, or 10-15x400m @ 3k-5k pace.

I'm planning to do a 70.3 in a few years, after successfully adding 2 weekly swims.
Current FTP based on Zwift ramp test: 275W
Current run PB: 21ish minutes for the 5k

What are your thoughts?
thanks ;)
Last edited by: Kumite: Sep 29, 20 2:02
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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That must be for 20min for 275w, cause if that's for an hour of ftp then I wouldn't change a single thing you're doing if that's only on an hour a day.

Also, 8 hours a week is NOT an hour a day. That's very disingenuous and doesn't help with anything for you. You simply can't go without off days and shading the discussion to make is seem like an hour a day doesn't help anyone help you.

So no, that's not an hour a day. 8 hours a day with 1.5 days off per week would be 1.5 hours per day. An entire 50% more volume per day than you posted.

So, which is it? Is it 6 hours a week with a day off? Is it 8 hours a week with 1.5 off?

Otherwise? For someone doing multisport I'd just do all the sweetspot you can handle on the bike if you've got an hour at a time for 5.5 to 6 hours a week.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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Two solid threads about this:

the “Flanagan FTP plan”: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=2932446

“this is the sh*t that kills”:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=4193285
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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I cancelled my membership after the winter, but I found some pretty good workouts on TrainerRoad for time crunched cyclists.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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Kumite wrote:
Long sustained higher end of SS, right at [/font]FTP
What are your thoughts?
thanks ;)

That higher end of SS and FTP are quite different. If FTP is 275, SS range is 242-253
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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"That higher end of SS and FTP are quite different. If FTP is 275, SS range is 242-253"


Yep, thanks, that's why I added: " depending on the periodisation".
In the beginning of base phase: more time at SS, slowly progressing to more time at FTP, to only FTP.


My thoughts: to simulate cycling on fatigued legs on the follow up day, if I'm only able to train an hour a day.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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"Final result - 24 Watts added to FTP."



WOW, this Flanagan stuff sounds hard, but effective as f* :O Will consider, thanks!
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
That higher end of SS and FTP are quite different.

I guess it depends on who you ask. FasCat says it's 84 – 97% of FTP.
https://fascatcoaching.com/...weet-spot-tss-rides/
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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Kumite wrote:
Hi,

....(snip) Flannagan-esque bike program (snip)....

Based on a few years into running, I'm more of a SS / threshold guy, rather than polarized method with "lots" ("lots" in the 8-10 hours / week context) of easy rides.

If I'm able to fit in, I'd add running on the quality days, making the hard days hard, the easy days easy. For example: 3x10 minutes @ threshold, or 10-15x400m @ 3k-5k pace.

I'm planning to do a 70.3 in a few years, after successfully adding 2 weekly swims.
Current FTP based on Zwift ramp test: 275W
Current run PB: 21ish minutes for the 5k

What are your thoughts?
thanks ;)

I wouldn't do any hard running in the midst of an FTP build like that. Your running will suck, and it will suck the life out of your FTP build. So, I'd just do all easy running while in a FTP focus. That said....

Your cycling FTP is well above your running Personal Best, in terms of relative performance...so if 21m 5Km is a true indicator of your run, you might be better served by focusing on your run.

PS: you might need more than 2x swims unless you are a FOP swimmer.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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With just 8 hours a week, I wouldn't do any z1 rides. If too tired for low z2, I'd just take a complete rest day.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:

Your cycling FTP is well above your running Personal Best, in terms of relative performance...so if 21m 5Km is a true indicator of your run, you might be better served by focusing on your run.

PS: you might need more than 2x swims unless you are a FOP swimmer.

After doing several, 10+ years of martial arts and / or adhoc gym / crosstraining (not crossfit), I've started running 4-5 years ago. I could not break 20 mins on 60-80 km (38-50 miles) per week, starting from a ~23 minute 5K time.

That 275W FTP is also based on a ramp test. I cannot imagine holding that for 30-40 minutes, not even 60. Peak power was around 1100W, so I think I'm more of a strength guy, than an endurance. Also, my body indicates this too: 86 kg (190 pounds), 187 cm tall (6'13 feet, if I exchange it correctly), around 15% bodyfat.

Also: since doing 5 times a week cycling and 2 times running for the last half year: I've never ever run a 5k as fast as now, which is kind of a mistery to me either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I needed more threshold running / FTP cycling, and SS cycling, because I'm lacking muscular endurance.



As for swimming, and, to be fair, all training: It's just... we have a new born, 7 months old, and I'm trying to figure out an optional time schedule to at least improve a bit. And hopping on a trainer needs the least time of the 3 disciplines.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. That explains some things. 21min 5km is pretty quick at 190 lbs, and probably closer to your biking ability. At 190 lbs, I wouldn't jump straight to threshold running. That's probably a recipe for injury. But, if you've done 40-50mpw without any injury issues, you should be pretty solid. Still you want to be careful adding hard running...and that's even more true for heavier runners.

If you can't imagine holding 275 for even 30min, that's not your FTP. Before making a FTP build plan...you'd probably be best served by getting a better baseline of your true FTP. There've been a couple recent threads here presenting several options for how to do that. But, based on your comments so far, you need a method that limits the effects of your short-term power capacity. I'm not a big "testing" type and only use them 1-2 times a year to establish a known baseline to work from. Then I increment based on weekly results and past experience.

Since you have a newborn, and clearly seem to have your priorities right....I completely agree with doing "what you can, when you can" and take care of the baby, and the spouse. If biking makes the most sense, so be it. My point for swimming 2x per week, was directed at your 70.3 long term goal....not necessarily "right now". So, just know that you will probably need more swimming when you are "ready and able" to prepare for a 70.3. Until then enjoy the baby!

Again, I wouldn't MIX hard running (of any kind) with hard cycling. So, if you want to do a block of FTP cycling (per above), cool...just run easy. When you decide you want to focus on the run, cool. Just cycle easy during that time. Alternating like that every few months is a really good way to go about it. Doing both at the same time is usually a good way to be mediocre at both...or get burned out, or injured, or all of the above.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks a lot, your comment helped me in more than one life aspect.

Tom_hampton wrote:
But, based on your comments so far, you need a method that limits the effects of your short-term power capacity. I'm not a big "testing" type and only use them 1-2 times a year to establish a known baseline to work from. Then I increment based on weekly results and past experience.

Yes, this was what I was thinking too: maybe my anaerob system is more robust / I am more fast twitch, that's why I can reach for example 1000+ W, and hold the ramp test the way it's algorythm thinks my FTP is 275.

Maybe I should start out with a lower, let's say 250W FTP based workouts, and increase it 3-2-1 Watts per week: 3 after the 2nd week, 2 after another 2 weeks and 1 after another +2 weeks, and see how my body responds during training and also how it is recovering. After that, adding 1-2 watts / 2 week.

I have no time limit, no scheduled race, if 250 was too low, and the setup reaches my true, let's say 260W in 1-2 months, nothing happened, it's just I've trained more highend SS during that time, no time wasted at all, just did a SS basephase, which is always a great training time investment.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah totally disingenuous and probably a bit contrapunctive too
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:

Also, 8 hours a week is NOT an hour a day. That's very disingenuous and doesn't help with anything for you. You simply can't go without off days and shading the discussion to make is seem like an hour a day doesn't help anyone help you.
[..]
So, which is it? Is it 6 hours a week with a day off? Is it 8 hours a week with 1.5 off?


"I have 60 minutes every morning to hop on the trainer on weekdays, and 90 minutes on weekends."
(5 x 60 on weekdays) + (2 x 90 on weekends) = 480 = 5 + 3 = 8 hours a week
That's 8 hours on the bike / week with no rest days, but since rest day is essential as you mentioned, so let's say it is 7 hours / week, taking Monday off after the longer weekend trainings.

burnthesheep wrote:
For someone doing multisport I'd just do all the sweetspot you can handle on the bike if you've got an hour at a time for 5.5 to 6 hours a week.

Thanks, will try it out after I've tried the Flanagan stuff, so I'll have a better understanding of how my body and mind reacts to different training types!


Did I understand you corretly?
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I did the classic 20 minute Zwift FTP test this morning following the protocol below. The interval watts were based of the previously set 275W FTP, I assume.





20 min avg power: 278W
20 min avg hr: 175, max HR: 186, last 5 minute avg HR 183

Based on the HR data and the pain factor I felt during the last 5 minutes, this seems all-out approved to me, since I managed to run a single half marathon at 170AVG, and a 12 min allout running at 180 AVG, having a 193ish (run)max.

Zwift set my FTP based on the results at 265W.
Previously the ramp test estimated a 275W FTP, which has less than 4% "error", so it is quite surprising and interesting for me.


I will go with 265 for now, and I think I'll start every week after a restweek with one of the FTP tests. It's like the rest week is a taper for the next test.
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Re: 1 hour a day cycling [Kumite] [ In reply to ]
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Kumite wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:

Also, 8 hours a week is NOT an hour a day. That's very disingenuous and doesn't help with anything for you. You simply can't go without off days and shading the discussion to make is seem like an hour a day doesn't help anyone help you.
[..]
So, which is it? Is it 6 hours a week with a day off? Is it 8 hours a week with 1.5 off?



"I have 60 minutes every morning to hop on the trainer on weekdays, and 90 minutes on weekends."
(5 x 60 on weekdays) + (2 x 90 on weekends) = 480 = 5 + 3 = 8 hours a week
That's 8 hours on the bike / week with no rest days, but since rest day is essential as you mentioned, so let's say it is 7 hours / week, taking Monday off after the longer weekend trainings.

burnthesheep wrote:
For someone doing multisport I'd just do all the sweetspot you can handle on the bike if you've got an hour at a time for 5.5 to 6 hours a week.

Thanks, will try it out after I've tried the Flanagan stuff, so I'll have a better understanding of how my body and mind reacts to different training types!


Did I understand you corretly?


Cool, 7 with day off. Understand I wasn't trying to be difficult, just that I didn't understand the actual times. There's books for folks on the 5-6 hour a week schedules. Reason it was important (to me at least) is I feel that with 7 or 8hrs a week there is more opportunity. The intensity really ratchets up when you get shorter and shorter.

But, since it isn't crit racing or something like that.........yeah.........I still say sweetspot would be your way to go. Maybe alternated days or weeks of shorter and tougher sweetspot with longer and easier. A week of 3x15min workouts at upper sweetspot then a week of just one long single set of sweetspot.

The intensity of some of the time crunched plans on the bike really seem to work well for crit/road racing stuff, or cyclocross. I did them. They worked well for that. But..........for my time trial stuff I didn't really care for it. I didn't see the gains in on-course times I expected.

I've made my biggest gains in TT in a pretty similar fit position and with pretty similar equipment by consuming as much tempo and sweetspot as I can handle. Then I toss in a race-sim ride once every other week. A 10mi try or a 40k try all-out.

I mean, on identical equipment looking at my training ride speeds versus a year ago using this strategy and I'm on average a whole mph to 1.5mph faster every single ride on about 20w more.

The sweetspot isn't intense enough for me either that as a cyclist I can't toss in a few runs per week. If I'm doing high intensity stuff, I won't run. Sweetspot, I can run a few times a week. Sometimes on the same day.
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