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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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hugoagogo wrote:
BobAjobb wrote:


2 reasons I always (at least try to) breathe out constantly under water...
1- the buoyancy is in the chest - if I don't breathe out and hold on the breathe, it lifts the front of my body up and the legs go down = more drag.

2. What makes us all biologically want to gasp for air is the CO2 increase in the blood stream, long before the reduced O2 does. That's how we're all wired. Divers and free divers have understood this for decades. So breathing out constantly helps reduce the CO2 build up and so can go longer without the horrid 'gotta breathe' feeling getting as bad.


I have heard this before, but it never made any sense to me. I assume that the amount CO2 being produced is the same (for a given exercise level) whether we are holding our breath or not. If that is true, by exhaling we are not just reducing CO2 in your lungs, but also N2 and O2 (I do not think our lungs can selectively exhale only CO2) -- so by exhaling only we then put the same amount of CO2 into a smaller volume and thereby increasing the concentration of CO2 (in our lungs and thus also our bloodstream) compared to what it would be if we didn't exhale. I think the help from exhaling must come from a more complicated trigger to want to gasp for air -- the trigger (or at least the panic trigger) must take into consideration not just CO2 concentration, but also whether we are holding our breath (and exhaling doesn't get treated as holding our breath).

While the CO2 thing is true, breathing can be dumbed down to even simpler principles. I did a post on "Pulse breathing" a month ago, to zero replies/crickets...

1. Use the stroking arm to assist in exhaling, therefore max flow out is during the pull (either side).
2. Maintain exhale flow but reduce when the chest is not under tension - this also applies for the bubbling effect
3. You have to work against water pressure, so its best to align with chest cavity muscular compression and with lowest pressure (ie a good exhale just as turning to breathe in)

I think top swimmers naturally do the above, without even a thought.

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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Who is Gary Hall Snr?


Would he ever bother to visit a triathlon forum?

(desperately trying to find an old thread where a question like this was asked before!)
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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That is amazing. I blow out steadily because that is what Swim Smooth says to do and it is easier than pushing it all out at once and trying to grab a quick breath but never thought it reduced drag.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Who is Gary Hall Snr?


Would he ever bother to visit a triathlon forum?

(desperately trying to find an old thread where a question like this was asked before!)

haha...for the win!!!

Been to the pool 3 times in less than 24 hrs and I keep reverting back to old patterns. I am sure this will take me a good month to "let go" of old patterns.
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Wasn't it the dude who started FLO? loved that old thread
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Speaking of "surfing on bubbles".

I seem to recall some of my best swim splits when I would get in behind one or two much stronger/faster swimmers, and it was like swimming in a washing machine - lots' or turbulence and bubbles - but you would just hang on for dear life. The sense of feeling was at the time, that this was slower - but the actual swim split belied that point!

There seemed to be two types of better swimmers - ones like the ones mentioned above where it was rough and tumble in the water behind them and then the ones were there seemed to be little disruption at all - very smooth. It always seemed to be to be faster drafting in the washing machine, while it did not seem like it at the time!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Speaking of "surfing on bubbles".

I seem to recall some of my best swim splits when I would get in behind one or two much stronger/faster swimmers, and it was like swimming in a washing machine - lots' or turbulence and bubbles - but you would just hang on for dear life. The sense of feeling was at the time, that this was slower - but the actual swim split belied that point!

There seemed to be two types of better swimmers - ones like the ones mentioned above where it was rough and tumble in the water behind them and then the ones were there seemed to be little disruption at all - very smooth. It always seemed to be to be faster drafting in the washing machine, while it did not seem like it at the time!

That effect may just about drafting and not about bubbles. The more hydrodynamic a swimmer ahead is, the weaker the draft effect.
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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SharkFM wrote:

While the CO2 thing is true, breathing can be dumbed down to even simpler principles. I did a post on "Pulse breathing" a month ago, to zero replies/crickets...

1. Use the stroking arm to assist in exhaling, therefore max flow out is during the pull (either side).
2. Maintain exhale flow but reduce when the chest is not under tension - this also applies for the bubbling effect
3. You have to work against water pressure, so its best to align with chest cavity muscular compression and with lowest pressure (ie a good exhale just as turning to breathe in)

I think top swimmers naturally do the above, without even a thought.

I think #3 is backward. Inhaling is working against water pressure -- trying to get the air to go from above the water to below. The water pressure is trying to compress your lungs, so it is helping the exhale.

OTOH, I can't understand #1 and #2. Heavy exhale right after inhale (opposite arm pull)? Then reduce it? Then heavy again (breath side pull)? Then reduce it? Then heavy exhale again right before inhale?

In my experience, the only impediment to exhaling during any part of the swim stroke is habit.
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Re: Gary Hall Sr. Test: 9% less drag riding on your bubbles [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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When the lungs are full, increased pressure in the chest decreases blood return to the heart and cardiac output. Deep inspirations (high tidal volume) and rapid expiration (increased pressure) are not optimal ventilation. There are a number of ventilator settings that demonstrate this relationship. In fact, individuals on a ventilator need to be sedated so that the don’t “fight” the optimal setting (volume and frequency) and decrease gas exchange (CO2 and O2) and cardiac output (delivery to and from the lungs and body). Sucking and blowing are bad! Expiration is relaxation and elastic recoil... not a muscular contraction.
Last edited by: Wild Horse: Sep 11, 20 22:20
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