Amnesia wrote:
Agreed re the 105% for 20 mins, but most training plans won't have you doing 20 mins at 105% FTP regularly as that is in essence an FTP test.
It shouldn't be continued to be thought of as an FTP test. I have hope as we've seen some coaches/researchers/writers abandon that as a measuring stick
You're very right that not many people will prescribe that as an interval, although I'd suggest that one should be able to do that, at least 1x as an interval....just for fun.
Amnesia wrote:
I blame the system rather than the individual. TR should probably take a lot better educational line with their users, many of whom purposely do not have access to a coach, to explain this.
Just purely out of interest, what do you define as longer intervals at threshold? ie what % of FTP and what time (or what ranges you prescribe, eg 2X20min at 100% FTP etc etc). Just keen to hear what others do or prescribe.
#truth The system is flawed. The # of consults I've done from people using TR who peaked too early, never progressed beyond that April/May time period, went down in a ball of flames late(r) season etc is pretty epic.
It's a product of people doing lots of 2-5 min intervals at well above FTP. The confirmation bias comes in when they do a short FTP or short step ramp test.
I get it, for time crunched people it's a really solid hour of work, you get off and feel good about what you've done, the TSS you've put up, the kJ burned. The question I'd pose to those athletes is is this an effective use of your time if improving performance is your goal?
I'd argue that if they are a triathlete, especially a long course triathlete they'd be better off doing a longer warm up, 1-2 longer intervals @ lower intensity and more cool down vs the traditional TR workout that seems to be a 10 min ramp warm up & a 5 min cool down....if you're lucky.
As for threshold intervals that I prescribe it's that 94/95% to 102-104% depending on the individual. Here's an example of an interval set I wrote for someone last week converted to %. 2x(11 min @ 96-98% FTP + :30 ez + 9 min @ 100-103% + 1 min ez). That's roughly a 43 min set and they were pretty blase about it. It was their first interval set in ~ 2 weeks due to stuff.
This week they did 2x(12 min ~ 100% + 1 ez + 10 min ~ 95% + :45 ez) and their comment was "by the time I got home I forgot I did intervals." That was sandwiched in a 2:20 min ride. They rode the intervals >275 and the easy parts <90w.
I really doubt that athlete could do 4 or 5x(4 min @ 110% FTP + 4 min ez) (actually I'd bet a lot of $$$ they couldn't). That athlete historically rides a 70.3 at 85-90% FTP and still turn in the #1 or #2 run split in their age group 13/15 70.3.s.
Over the decades of coaching I've been pretty fortunate to have numerous athletes that have been with me for 4-8 years. This have given me a pretty retrospective look to see what I've tried and the results. It just seems that the more early season vo2 work I have them do the more cranky the athlete is near the mid to back half of the season. I also suspect the end result is probably no better & maybe worse.
I used to use TR workouts a lot for my athletes, now they mainly use it for the workouts I've created, a couple of which I've published for anyone to use. Although TBT 90+% of my athletes that used TR have migrated to other platforms and all my new athletes in the last 2 seasons use a different platform
If you're reading this and I coached you 8-15yr ago, I'm sorry. I was so dumb then.
Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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