The French Wealth Tax

Nov 16, 19 8:28

Post #1 of 19 (1795 views)

Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes;

"France had a wealth tax from 1982 to 1986 and again from 1988 to 2017. The top rate was between 1.5% and 1.8%, with the total tax rate on fortunes larger than 13 million euros ($14.3 million) hovering at about 1.4%. This is much less than the 6% top rate proposed by Warren (not to mention the 8% proposed by her fellow candidate, Senator Bernie Sanders), but it's close to the 2% rate Warren would impose on fortunes larger than $50 million.

The wealth tax might have generated social solidarity, but as a practical matter it was a disappointment. The revenue it raised was rather paltry; only a few billion euros at its peak, or about 1% of France’s total revenue from all taxes. At least 10,000 wealthy people left the country to avoid paying the tax; most moved to neighboring Belgium, which has a large French-speaking population. When these individuals left, France lost not only their wealth tax revenue but their income taxes and other taxes as well. French economist Eric Pichet estimates that this ended up costing the French government almost twice as much revenue as the total yielded by the wealth tax."

https://news.yahoo.com/...-didn-103027222.html

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Re: The French Wealth Tax [jkca1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 10:25

Post #2 of 19 (1736 views)

my understanding it was a lot more than 10k

it also has resulted in french family businesses such as tattinger being sold.

When grandparent die and there is insufficient cash to pay the IHT, busines gets sold. very short sighted

there are ways of managing it, more so the wealth tax now that macro has completely changed it, but stupid none the less

Re: The French Wealth Tax [jkca1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 10:54

Post #3 of 19 (1713 views)

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Matt

Re: The French Wealth Tax [Chemist] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 11:11

Post #4 of 19 (1700 views)

How's that deal with gifts

How's it deal with businesses

How's it deal with trusts

I'm not sure that legislators anywhere really think this through

Re: The French Wealth Tax [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 11:27

Post #5 of 19 (1689 views)

Dunno, I work in healthcare, not finance

Matt

Re: The French Wealth Tax [Chemist] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 13:54

Post #6 of 19 (1583 views)

Chemist wrote:

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Remember that just because a candidate has a policy, doesn't mean it will ever happen. And as for the 40% exit tax, I'd be amazed if they could ever collect on that. Imagine, we're going to jack up your taxes and if you leave we'll take a whole bunch more. But yeah we consider you a citizen not a hostage. Pretty f'd up if you ask me.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [jkca1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 14:21

Post #7 of 19 (1565 views)

who cares how much revenue a wealth tax creates?

jkca1 wrote:

Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes;

"France had a wealth tax from 1982 to 1986 and again from 1988 to 2017. The top rate was between 1.5% and 1.8%, with the total tax rate on fortunes larger than 13 million euros ($14.3 million) hovering at about 1.4%. This is much less than the 6% top rate proposed by Warren (not to mention the 8% proposed by her fellow candidate, Senator Bernie Sanders), but it's close to the 2% rate Warren would impose on fortunes larger than $50 million.

The wealth tax might have generated social solidarity, but as a practical matter it was a disappointment. The revenue it raised was rather paltry; only a few billion euros at its peak, or about 1% of France’s total revenue from all taxes. At least 10,000 wealthy people left the country to avoid paying the tax; most moved to neighboring Belgium, which has a large French-speaking population. When these individuals left, France lost not only their wealth tax revenue but their income taxes and other taxes as well. French economist Eric Pichet estimates that this ended up costing the French government almost twice as much revenue as the total yielded by the wealth tax."

https://news.yahoo.com/...-didn-103027222.html

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: The French Wealth Tax [jkca1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 15:49

Post #8 of 19 (1530 views)

So is the argument that if something works in France, it would work in America? Or is it only an argument in your mind when it does not work in France. Because I hear all the time that things that work in France would not work in the US, but now you are saying that things that don't work in France would also never work in the US.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [velocomp] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 18:00

Post #9 of 19 (1461 views)

velocomp wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Remember that just because a candidate has a policy, doesn't mean it will ever happen.

OMG, velocomp and I actually agree! NONE of the most extreme policies are going to actually be enacted. There is no difference between any of the candidates in what they actually can do. They will merely reverse most of Trump's executive orders, maybe pass one major bill (which will be watered down), and then we will endlessly bicker over the same issues for four more years.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 18:06

Post #10 of 19 (1458 views)

oldandslow wrote:

velocomp wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Remember that just because a candidate has a policy, doesn't mean it will ever happen.

OMG, velocomp and I actually agree! NONE of the most extreme policies are going to actually be enacted. There is no difference between any of the candidates in what they actually can do. They will merely reverse most of Trump's executive orders, maybe pass one major bill (which will be watered down), and then we will endlessly bicker over the same issues for four more years.

While they write EO that will be overturned by the next person.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [velocomp] [ In reply to ]

Nov 16, 19 18:13

Post #11 of 19 (1450 views)

Quote:

While they write EO that will be overturned by the next person.

Of course, ad infinitum.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [velocomp] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 19 4:54

Post #12 of 19 (1354 views)

velocomp wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Remember that just because a candidate has a policy, doesn't mean it will ever happen. And as for the 40% exit tax, I'd be amazed if they could ever collect on that. Imagine, we're going to jack up your taxes and if you leave we'll take a whole bunch more. But yeah we consider you a citizen not a hostage. Pretty f'd up if you ask me.

Hmmmm. Psssst. There is CURRENTLY an exit tax. U.S. citizens are taxed on their worldwide earnings regardless of where they live. In order to avoid being taxed, you would have to surrender your citizenship. If you do that, and have over $2 mill in assets or income over $162K, you pay an exit tax. All of your assets are treated as if you sold them, whether you did or not, and you have to pay a capital gains tax (23.8%).

So today, the exit tax for the wealthy is 23.8%. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 19 5:26

Post #13 of 19 (1336 views)

oldandslow wrote:

There is no difference between any of the candidates in what they actually can do. They will merely reverse most of Trump's executive orders, maybe pass one major bill (which will be watered down)....

I disagree. Elizabeth Warren will be sending the black helicopters... I'm updating my stock portfolio w/ black helicopter index funds if she wins the nomination.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Last edited by: ericMPro: Nov 17, 19 5:27

Re: The French Wealth Tax [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 19 14:24

Post #14 of 19 (1259 views)

oldandslow wrote:

velocomp wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Doesn’t Warren’s plan have a 40% ‘exit tax’ for people worth over 50 million that would deter something like this from happening (or at least create a large one time revenue if it happens)

Remember that just because a candidate has a policy, doesn't mean it will ever happen.

OMG, velocomp and I actually agree! NONE of the most extreme policies are going to actually be enacted. There is no difference between any of the candidates in what they actually can do. They will merely reverse most of Trump's executive orders, maybe pass one major bill (which will be watered down), and then we will endlessly bicker over the same issues for four more years.

What a dodge. If you like the policy grow a pair and defend it. If you don't like the policy, grow a pair and criticize it.

Would you ever suggest Republicans (and the LR community) ignore crazy policy proposals and arguments from their candidate or candidates? I would venture to answer: No.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [SH] [ In reply to ]

Nov 17, 19 22:47

Post #15 of 19 (1198 views)

Actually. I pretty much have a long history of being more concerned about governance, rather than platform. That said, it is no small matter that the bulk of changes will be through executive orders. I disagree with almost all of Trumps EO's, as well as his style of elevating bitter tribalism as his defining virtue. I am actually surprised that he has tried to govern as if he were merely running an ending partisan campaign. I have argued here that someone like Biden is much more likely to break through the gridlock and pass legislation, than more leftist candidates. Why not assert a more realistic scenario?

Re: The French Wealth Tax [SH] [ In reply to ]

Nov 18, 19 1:47

Post #16 of 19 (1137 views)

Would you ever suggest Republicans (and the LR community) ignore crazy policy proposals and arguments from their candidate or candidates? I would venture to answer: No.[/quote]

Isn’t that the Republican party’s current approach?

Re: The French Wealth Tax [SH] [ In reply to ]

Nov 18, 19 7:37

Post #17 of 19 (1055 views)

SH wrote:

Would you ever suggest Republicans (and the LR community) ignore crazy policy proposals and arguments from their candidate or candidates? I would venture to answer: No.

Yes, Mexico is going to pay for that wall. And we should ban all muslims from entering the country.

Re: The French Wealth Tax [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

Nov 18, 19 8:26

Post #18 of 19 (1023 views)

chaparral wrote:

SH wrote:

Would you ever suggest Republicans (and the LR community) ignore crazy policy proposals and arguments from their candidate or candidates? I would venture to answer: No.

Yes, Mexico is going to pay for that wall. And we should ban all muslims from entering the country.

and those are just the ones we know about, and also *policy*

then there's the non-policy actions, like closing polling places in black areas of certain states, purging voting rolls, taking away powers of duly elected governors and judges, and generally acting as if Republican elected politicians are above the law while Democrat elected politicians are ipso facto illegitimate.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: The French Wealth Tax [jkca1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 18, 19 11:49

Post #19 of 19 (957 views)

I believe there is a soccer angle here as well. Top soccer clubs were effected.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.