I want to go back to your bottom line - Hoffman has moved into that rarified air of the stud runners. Good for him!

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

On the tracker app, it said the last check before the finish was 25.8/41 (which is mathematically wrong) and then the last was the marathon finish. Not sure where your getting the finish on the tracker being 41.1 though.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

And got coached by Kipchoge's coach...I couldn't imagine what that cost.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

And why would you say that? Based on what? Because they both had a carbon plated shoe? In terms of energy return and cushioning they don’t come even close to each other.
The foam used is completely different.

What will be really interesting is when Saucony launches their Endorphin models with the carbon plate’s and the pebax foam. Although used in a slightly different form then how Nike uses it.
I’m still not sure what NB is using in their Fuelcell Racer as well as the Brooks that is in the making.

We will find out next year around Spring ;-)

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Why are ST's obsessed with "Well, Allen/Scott/Whoever could have been faster with XYZ piece of gear."

Maybe, maybe not. In swimming, we don't say "Well, Mark Spitz could have gone head to head with Phelps if he had modern training, modern suits, shaved his mustache, worn goggles, had a better pool. But if Phelps had to swim only twice like Spitz instead of prelims/semi's/finals he would have been even faster because he would have swum like 8 fewer races."

Seriously. Stop. It's dumb.

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

"Phelps was approximately 1.2 seconds faster in the X event when wearing the jacked super suit" is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. People love to compare times through the eras because at least in running you actually can. Fina standardizes pools and starting blocks to prevent too much influence from the pool.

This has nothing to do with training methods, just shoes that make you faster by some unknown large amount that is leading to a re-write of the record books. Stop pretending that it's not totally unfair to guys like Ben Hoffman to wonder if it is the shoes, or if he's a better athlete and/or trains smarter. Here is a guy who wanted the sport to be about the athlete, not the tech:

https://www.theguardian.com/...-world-championships

Instead of hijacking this thread meant why don’t you just create your own thread where you can bitch and moan about how you don’t think manufacturers should make faster equipment? Or how about you create a race where everyone has to wear no wetsuit, ride a drop bar round tube steel bike 32 spike wheels and no helmet then run barefoot? Then you and others who feel this way can can have a place your circle jerk complaining

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Matt

Why do you say that like those two things are mutually exclusive?

because in this context, the influence of the tech muddies the waters as to who is the better athlete on the day.

Getting back to swimming, look at the mens 200 and 400 free records from 2009. They're silly, no-one thinks that Biederman is actually the fastest swimmer ever. He was good and had a good WC's in '09, so no disrespect, but he really shouldn't be the WR holder. he probably wasn't even the fastest guy in '09 without the shiny suit, since none of the Speedo or TYR athletes were able to wear the Arena suit that dominated. IIRC the Jaked was similar to the Arena, but the Speedo offering was well behind.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

This thread isn't about swimming.

As far as I can tell, this thread is about an athlete who has proved that he can run with the best in the sport over the Ironman distance.

I can not believe that this thread has NOT mentioned Lionel Sanders. Come on - you guys know that by the second page EVERY IM thread MUST mention LS and how he would have run at this event! Z

yup, but swimming has been down this road before with the tech advantages. that's why it's being brought up.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

The reason it's in this thread is because Hoffman was wearing the shoes... It's not a thread hijack when his time cannot be truly separated from his footwear. If I was congratulating him on his excellent footwear choice, you'd be totally on board. Yet somehow, the counter argument is off limits? Either way, the shoes are a huge part of the story here and aren't off-topic. As someone noted, even acknowledging the shoes, it is still a fantastic time, but now we have to do math to figure out how fantastic it actually was. No reason to keep it confined to the other thread- it's one of the biggest stories in running and triathlon.

Kudos to Ben Hoffman though! Absolutely fantastic time by any measure. His sponsorship now includes a non-alcoholic beer company. I'm intrigued. I legitimately wonder how much of an effect dropping alcohol from his diet has been. Is it the calories or the alcohol? That would be an interesting debate. I'm going to go buy a six pack of it though and see if it's any good.

Skipper was wearing the red Rincon in Kona, and the Carbon X here, indeed.