my reference point for a UK cyclist who can do 30 mph for an hour (or 40K in under 50 mins) is Ollie from GCN (well back when he was at cycling weekly and did project 49). Some talent, works hard, rides a lot, pays a lot of attention to details such as diet and tech.........but recognizes the significant gap between him and the pros, even the mainly domestic guys they have on the show.
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Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [gary p]
[ In reply to ]
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [rich_m]
[ In reply to ]
Yes, UK TT times are very fast. One reason is because they are good. TTs are a legit separate sport, there are many races, and competition is high. The other is that many races are on "dual carriageways" (two lanes in each direction) with a lot of traffic, which lends a constant tailwind.
And Xav's clients will tend towards the pointy end; those who really pay attention to detail and optimization.
And Xav's clients will tend towards the pointy end; those who really pay attention to detail and optimization.
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [buzz]
[ In reply to ]
buzz wrote:
Xavier wrote:
...lots of people are shooting for 48kph/30mph for TTs these dayswow ... is that for real? i used to be a pretty serious tt'er. most courses i've seen in races have enough elevation, crappy pavement, sketchy turns, etc, that 48 requires massive talent. but you say in the UK that's fairly normal? do you mean for pros?
As rruff mentions the UK TT scene is quite unique - having traffic really speeds you up so it's quite a lot different than international UCI racing for example. I'd almost go as far to say as it's nearly a different sport - you get rewarded much more by having an exceptionally low CdA in UK racing as you get sped up more by passing traffic compared with someone travelling the same speed, but with a higher CdA. UCI races on the other hand reward a more complete skillset of handling, watts/kg as well as CdA.
AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [gary p]
[ In reply to ]
gary p wrote:
To be clear, I wasn't trying to be critical of the chosen speed. Given your primary target audience (TT racers) and the fact that it's your standard aero testing speed, it makes perfect sense. I was simply saying that the "7 watts difference" needs to be understood in that context, and that you adjust to your personal average speed. And let's not kid ourselves, 45kph for triathletes is way out there on the pointy end of the bell curve. There were almost 2300 finishers at the USAT Olympic Distance National Championship, and I couldn't find one who averaged 45kph.....even taking out the wonky first 1.1 mile split (which appears to have included T1). To go from 40kph to 45kph requires somewhere in the neighborhood of 35-38% more power. 5kph difference in speed, gigantic difference in the athletic capacity necessary to achieve it....especially on the bike leg of a triathlon. For those of you who are there, congrats, you're monsters in my eyes. For those that are close, you're damn fine athletes, too. Far from the norm. But even if you can hold 43kph, you're still 12-13% short of the power needed to hold 45.
100% agree - it's definitely too fast for wattage comparisons for most triathletes. When we do aero test sessions for triathletes we usually use 40kph as the modelling speed. 45kph is a nice happy medium between the superfast time triallists and the UK testers (who often complain we're not giving them numbers at 50kph!) :D
Giving numbers at 30kph also is tricky as sometimes the values sound really low and therefore insignificant, it's a tricky balancing act I think. Main thing is to make sure people are aware of the differences!
AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [rruff]
[ In reply to ]
rruff wrote:
Yes, UK TT times are very fast. One reason is because they are good. TTs are a legit separate sport, there are many races, and competition is high. The other is that many races are on "dual carriageways" (two lanes in each direction) with a lot of traffic, which lends a constant tailwind. And Xav's clients will tend towards the pointy end; those who really pay attention to detail and optimization.
It's true we do get the extreme amateur end of the spectrum, but we did have a very pleasant rider in the tunnel today who was just looking to improve on his personal bests rather than attempting to win races. In some cases it's almost more rewarding with those sessions as you can make some really big improvements that the riders didn't know would be possible. I think at last count we're up to >975 riders since we started doing aero test sessions, has been a big range of abilities over the years.
AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [Xavier]
[ In reply to ]
Hi there at AeroCoach .. is there a measurable difference mounting the tube with talcum on the inner tire wall ?? After the impressions on the first rides I'll stay with that little ritual .. it feels smooth, silent and [is] fast [on downhills] !!
Thanks for sharing data and giving coherences, Xavier
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Thanks for sharing data and giving coherences, Xavier
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [sausskross]
[ In reply to ]
We haven’t actually tested that - I wonder if there’s a limit where too much talc will cause the tube to slip at all in the tyre carcass, or if once inflated there’s so much pressure there’s no chance of that happening? I suspect the latter
AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [buzz]
[ In reply to ]
buzz wrote:
Xavier wrote:
...lots of people are shooting for 48kph/30mph for TTs these dayswow ... is that for real? i used to be a pretty serious tt'er. most courses i've seen in races have enough elevation, crappy pavement, sketchy turns, etc, that 48 requires massive talent. but you say in the UK that's fairly normal? do you mean for pros?
TT race on one of our fastest 10 mile courses closed on 19:46 (150 riders all amateur) a day or so back. So every male rider has recorded a 30mph+ 10 mile TT in the last 3 years.
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [Xavier]
[ In reply to ]
.. a small amount of talcum can be laid out thinly and evenly easy by turning the tire little by little while knocking on it .. at the end it's less than on a spice cake dusted with powdered sugar .. after 600km it didn't ad any problems and still feels special .. especially downhill !!
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [Xavier]
[ In reply to ]
We ended up testing this sort of accidentally on purpose.. I personally hate talc and won't use it, but our test tech loves the stuff and I swear, he must prep the tube Lebron James style.. talc everywhere!! So we tested it back to back just to make sure we weren't skewing all of our data.. and couldn't find any difference in Crr over multiple attempts and multiple tubes and tires.
I'd file this one under personal preference, not helpful, but not harmful either..or for some possibly a valid placebo ;-)
Josh
http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
I'd file this one under personal preference, not helpful, but not harmful either..or for some possibly a valid placebo ;-)
Josh
http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
Re: AeroCoach Inner Tube Crr Testing [sausskross]
[ In reply to ]
.. so it is already tested [thanks for the info] .. a difference was not measurable .. some like it .. some don't .. reasons can be a placebo .. at least the talcum prevents the tube to stick at the tyre while changing it in a hurry .. that's ok .. oSo >>
edit: tried hard to ignore my personal senses, but ..
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
edit: tried hard to ignore my personal senses, but ..
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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Last edited by:
sausskross: Sep 9, 20 22:56
sausskross wrote:
at least the talcum prevents the tube to stick at the tyre while changing it in a hurry .. that's ok .. oSo >>I use it to aid installation; especially used tubes that have stretched. Keeps them from sticking to the tire and getting caught/distorted. Been using latex exclusively for 12 years or so (~80k miles) including a bunch of roller tests and I've never pinched one, if that means anything...