Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
What team from back in the day (late 70's to early 90's) that was a solid program has just turned into something between dumpster fire and meh?

I'm going with DePaul, Georgetown, or St. John's


UCLA. Indiana.


Not even close. They are still on again off again decent.

The three above.....not so much


If you consider their history, and the fact that their latest coaching search was an unmitigated disaster, then UCLA. No one wanted that job. The best UCLA could do was Mick Cronin? They couldn't even lure Rick Barnes away from Tennessee or Jamie Dixon from TCU. TC fucking U.

You get to coach in LA for the program who has more NCAA titles than any other, and you get Mick Cronin. After 100 days of publicly humiliating yourself?

That sir, is a dumpster fire.

And then there is this: https://www.si.com/...rch-hire-mick-cronin

In 2018–19, UCLA’s average home attendance was 8,269, which is 59.9% of the 13,800-person capacity of the newly-renovated Pauley Pavilion. In head coach Steve Alford’s first two seasons in Westwood—both years in which UCLA made the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament—average attendance was even lower. The lone recent spike came in 2016–17, when a fast-paced, high-flying Bruins team led by Lonzo Ball notched an average attendance of 11,183, or 81% of capacity.
For a frame of reference, take the attendance numbers from North Carolina and Indiana, two programs that rival UCLA in historical success. In UNC’s worst season ever, an 8–20 campaign in 2001–02 during the second year of Matt Doherty’s three-year stint as head coach, the Tar Heels’ home attendance was 16,319, or 75% of capacity. When Indiana went 6–25 in Tom Crean’s first season in 2008–09, the average home attendance at Assembly Hall was 14,331, good for 82.1% of capacity. Remember, these percentages are from these programs’ worst seasons in history. So, to compare, UCLA is getting a significantly smaller percentage of fans than its supposed peers, even when its basketball team is much better than those peers. It took a transcendent, homegrown college talent in Ball to even bring UCLA’s average attendance to that of Indiana’s worst season since World War II.

Agreed - the answer has to be UCLA, despite any semi-recent success they have had. When you look at the history of success UCLA had to where they are now, it is pretty astonishing.

They once had the greatest dynasty college basketball has ever seen. Now they can only hire Mick Cronin as their coach, and they lost to Liberty this past season.

The top young coaches in America - Chris Beard, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, etc. want absolutely nothing to do with that dumpster fire.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just outside the scope: University of San Francisco.

National champs in 55 & 56 (with Bill Russell at center)
Final 4 in 57
Final 8 in 64, 65, 73, 74
Final 16 in 63, 72, 78, 79
Only 3 bids since 79.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
UCLA is an interesting case. On one hand, if we are comparing present position to all-time heights, the gap is a chasm like we’ve never seen. But that’s because of a level of success that will never be replicated. It would be like comparing the Celtics to its heyday; comparing a team to something that is impossible to replicate in the current sports landscape. That feels like we’re almost punishing them for having once done the almost impossible.

But the fact that the UCLA job is clearly an undesirable one for virtually any top coach anywhere, well, that speaks volumes.

And UCLA has had a few great seasons in recent years. They always feel like the exception and not the rule though. But for everyone else that’s the case as well. There are very few true perennial powers anymore.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
What team from back in the day (late 70's to early 90's) that was a solid program has just turned into something between dumpster fire and meh?

I'm going with DePaul, Georgetown, or St. John's


UCLA. Indiana.


Not even close. They are still on again off again decent.

The three above.....not so much


If you consider their history, and the fact that their latest coaching search was an unmitigated disaster, then UCLA. No one wanted that job. The best UCLA could do was Mick Cronin? They couldn't even lure Rick Barnes away from Tennessee or Jamie Dixon from TCU. TC fucking U.

You get to coach in LA for the program who has more NCAA titles than any other, and you get Mick Cronin. After 100 days of publicly humiliating yourself?

That sir, is a dumpster fire.

And then there is this: https://www.si.com/...rch-hire-mick-cronin

In 2018–19, UCLA’s average home attendance was 8,269, which is 59.9% of the 13,800-person capacity of the newly-renovated Pauley Pavilion. In head coach Steve Alford’s first two seasons in Westwood—both years in which UCLA made the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament—average attendance was even lower. The lone recent spike came in 2016–17, when a fast-paced, high-flying Bruins team led by Lonzo Ball notched an average attendance of 11,183, or 81% of capacity.
For a frame of reference, take the attendance numbers from North Carolina and Indiana, two programs that rival UCLA in historical success. In UNC’s worst season ever, an 8–20 campaign in 2001–02 during the second year of Matt Doherty’s three-year stint as head coach, the Tar Heels’ home attendance was 16,319, or 75% of capacity. When Indiana went 6–25 in Tom Crean’s first season in 2008–09, the average home attendance at Assembly Hall was 14,331, good for 82.1% of capacity. Remember, these percentages are from these programs’ worst seasons in history. So, to compare, UCLA is getting a significantly smaller percentage of fans than its supposed peers, even when its basketball team is much better than those peers. It took a transcendent, homegrown college talent in Ball to even bring UCLA’s average attendance to that of Indiana’s worst season since World War II.


Agreed - the answer has to be UCLA, despite any semi-recent success they have had. When you look at the history of success UCLA had to where they are now, it is pretty astonishing.

They once had the greatest dynasty college basketball has ever seen. Now they can only hire Mick Cronin as their coach, and they lost to Liberty this past season.

The top young coaches in America - Chris Beard, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, etc. want absolutely nothing to do with that dumpster fire.

I think I agree. When you can't get anyone to coach you, there is a problem. The good thing for them is that they will come back at some point. They have all the resources in the world and are on a location that will draw coaches and players.

Depaul, however, will probably never be a power again.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
j p o wrote:
jepvb wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
What team from back in the day (late 70's to early 90's) that was a solid program has just turned into something between dumpster fire and meh?

I'm going with DePaul, Georgetown, or St. John's


UCLA. Indiana.


Not even close. They are still on again off again decent.

The three above.....not so much


If you consider their history, and the fact that their latest coaching search was an unmitigated disaster, then UCLA. No one wanted that job. The best UCLA could do was Mick Cronin? They couldn't even lure Rick Barnes away from Tennessee or Jamie Dixon from TCU. TC fucking U.

You get to coach in LA for the program who has more NCAA titles than any other, and you get Mick Cronin. After 100 days of publicly humiliating yourself?

That sir, is a dumpster fire.

And then there is this: https://www.si.com/...rch-hire-mick-cronin

In 2018–19, UCLA’s average home attendance was 8,269, which is 59.9% of the 13,800-person capacity of the newly-renovated Pauley Pavilion. In head coach Steve Alford’s first two seasons in Westwood—both years in which UCLA made the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament—average attendance was even lower. The lone recent spike came in 2016–17, when a fast-paced, high-flying Bruins team led by Lonzo Ball notched an average attendance of 11,183, or 81% of capacity.
For a frame of reference, take the attendance numbers from North Carolina and Indiana, two programs that rival UCLA in historical success. In UNC’s worst season ever, an 8–20 campaign in 2001–02 during the second year of Matt Doherty’s three-year stint as head coach, the Tar Heels’ home attendance was 16,319, or 75% of capacity. When Indiana went 6–25 in Tom Crean’s first season in 2008–09, the average home attendance at Assembly Hall was 14,331, good for 82.1% of capacity. Remember, these percentages are from these programs’ worst seasons in history. So, to compare, UCLA is getting a significantly smaller percentage of fans than its supposed peers, even when its basketball team is much better than those peers. It took a transcendent, homegrown college talent in Ball to even bring UCLA’s average attendance to that of Indiana’s worst season since World War II.


Agreed - the answer has to be UCLA, despite any semi-recent success they have had. When you look at the history of success UCLA had to where they are now, it is pretty astonishing.

They once had the greatest dynasty college basketball has ever seen. Now they can only hire Mick Cronin as their coach, and they lost to Liberty this past season.

The top young coaches in America - Chris Beard, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, etc. want absolutely nothing to do with that dumpster fire.


I think I agree. When you can't get anyone to coach you, there is a problem. The good thing for them is that they will come back at some point. They have all the resources in the world and are on a location that will draw coaches and players.

Depaul, however, will probably never be a power again.

I think that's part of the problem, they don't. Or if they do, they don't want to spend the money because the buyouts for some of their targets were an issue.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I thought St Johns hiring Mullin was a good choice and he seemed to be on a path to bringing them back to prominence. Then disappointing that he quit.

I recall Temple being decent back in those days with Chaney. But they seem to have fallen off the radar in current days.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can I bump this thread after a year of Juwan Howard trying to fill John Beilein's shoes?
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
UCLA in the 60/70s was the best college basketball program in history, and will likely remain as such for the end of time (based on players leaving early now).

its like saying who had the biggest decline over the last couple years in the womens programs. Its UCONN. They went from winning like 10 championships in a 15 year span to not winning (or playing in the champ) 3 years in a row.

When you set the bar so high, you have the biggest area of decline.

If we are talking about 80s. I would prob go gTown. But most of that could be attributed to Ewing being a stud.
Last edited by: patentattorney: Jun 26, 19 9:18
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
patentattorney wrote:
UCLA in the 60/70s was the best college basketball program in history, and will likely remain as such for the end of time (based on players leaving early now).

its like saying who had the biggest decline over the last couple years in the womens programs. Its UCONN. They went from winning like 10 championships in a 15 year span to not winning (or playing in the champ) 3 years in a row.

When you set the bar so high, you have the biggest area of decline.

If we are talking about 80s. I would prob go gTown. But most of that could be attributed to Ewing being a stud.


Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scorpio516 wrote:
Just outside the scope: University of San Francisco.

National champs in 55 & 56 (with Bill Russell at center)
Final 4 in 57
Final 8 in 64, 65, 73, 74
Final 16 in 63, 72, 78, 79
Only 3 bids since 79.

That's a good one - hadn't thought of that.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
As a follower of college ball back then, you know that pic you posted isn't Ewing, right?
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
j p o wrote:
jepvb wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
bluemonkeytri wrote:
windywave wrote:
What team from back in the day (late 70's to early 90's) that was a solid program has just turned into something between dumpster fire and meh?

I'm going with DePaul, Georgetown, or St. John's


UCLA. Indiana.


Not even close. They are still on again off again decent.

The three above.....not so much


If you consider their history, and the fact that their latest coaching search was an unmitigated disaster, then UCLA. No one wanted that job. The best UCLA could do was Mick Cronin? They couldn't even lure Rick Barnes away from Tennessee or Jamie Dixon from TCU. TC fucking U.

You get to coach in LA for the program who has more NCAA titles than any other, and you get Mick Cronin. After 100 days of publicly humiliating yourself?

That sir, is a dumpster fire.

And then there is this: https://www.si.com/...rch-hire-mick-cronin

In 2018–19, UCLA’s average home attendance was 8,269, which is 59.9% of the 13,800-person capacity of the newly-renovated Pauley Pavilion. In head coach Steve Alford’s first two seasons in Westwood—both years in which UCLA made the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament—average attendance was even lower. The lone recent spike came in 2016–17, when a fast-paced, high-flying Bruins team led by Lonzo Ball notched an average attendance of 11,183, or 81% of capacity.
For a frame of reference, take the attendance numbers from North Carolina and Indiana, two programs that rival UCLA in historical success. In UNC’s worst season ever, an 8–20 campaign in 2001–02 during the second year of Matt Doherty’s three-year stint as head coach, the Tar Heels’ home attendance was 16,319, or 75% of capacity. When Indiana went 6–25 in Tom Crean’s first season in 2008–09, the average home attendance at Assembly Hall was 14,331, good for 82.1% of capacity. Remember, these percentages are from these programs’ worst seasons in history. So, to compare, UCLA is getting a significantly smaller percentage of fans than its supposed peers, even when its basketball team is much better than those peers. It took a transcendent, homegrown college talent in Ball to even bring UCLA’s average attendance to that of Indiana’s worst season since World War II.


Agreed - the answer has to be UCLA, despite any semi-recent success they have had. When you look at the history of success UCLA had to where they are now, it is pretty astonishing.

They once had the greatest dynasty college basketball has ever seen. Now they can only hire Mick Cronin as their coach, and they lost to Liberty this past season.

The top young coaches in America - Chris Beard, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, etc. want absolutely nothing to do with that dumpster fire.


I think I agree. When you can't get anyone to coach you, there is a problem. The good thing for them is that they will come back at some point. They have all the resources in the world and are on a location that will draw coaches and players.

Depaul, however, will probably never be a power again.

I mostly agree w/ you & DieselP, except a little bit about the coaching draw... UCLA is a big name in hoops, but it's still not like they have a blank check to pay at the absolute top of the market. Pac-12 TV revenue lags behind the other major conferences, and it's still a state school so although the coaching $$ isn't coming directly from the taxpayers, they still have a little harder time publicly justifying it to the larger community (yes, I realize UNC & UK are public and pay their coaches more, but they are also easily a much bigger deal in their markets than a college program is in LA). So then you take something less than top of the market compensation and then compare the cost of living in LA (plus CA taxes) against the cost of living in a smaller college town like Lexington, Lawrence, Bloomington, etc, and it's a far less attractive package.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
40-Tude wrote:
As a follower of college ball back then, you know that pic you posted isn't Ewing, right?

Yes. And i presume you know who that is.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ah ok.... yes... 1985.
Quote Reply
Re: Biggest College Hoops decline [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
patentattorney wrote:
UCLA in the 60/70s was the best college basketball program in history, and will likely remain as such for the end of time (based on players leaving early now)....

I agree that it is UCLA. They weren't just the best college basketball program, they were perhaps the bell weather for all college sports.

Others that haven't been mentioned:

Without their recent success I would have put University of Houston second on the list (defeated UCLA in the game of the century). Though they never won a national title so perhaps not?

UTEP - formerly Texas Western - made the tournament 14 times in 30 years, (63-92) won the tournament once (first all black starting lineup ) and had a few other sweet 16 appearances. The last 26 seasons they have 3 first round losses only and a turnaround doesn't seem imminent.
Quote Reply

Prev Next