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BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics
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My Washington Post provided disappointing news yesterday in an article by Todd Frankel. The 3 wheeled BOB jogging stroller is hazardous to consumers safety because the front wheel falls off.

News flash! All failures were with the quick release skewers not being secured. The product passed all safety testing. Quick release skewers are subject to operator error! So is a lot of stuff. Dumb operators hurt themselves and their wee little passengers. Such is the way it has been since man first walked the earth.

The jist of the article was political and skewed as anti-Trump, therefore my disappointment. The man does not need a nothing burger hit story to help bring him down. Shame on you WAPO.

It seems that because of Trump's latest presidential appointments to the makeup of the CPSC (U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission) Board of Commissioners, the stroller is not to be recalled. The manufacturer was able to fight off a voluntary recall effort and a compelling recall lawsuit simply by holding off until the composition of the board shifted from democrat majority to republican majority.

My takeaway: F**k the politics of pubs v. dems!!! How about the CPSC and the Ad Council of America team up their government agencies and produce a TV commercial about how good it is to jog with your infants; and, oh by the way, this is how one is to correctly affix the front wheel quick release skewer! No lawsuits, no product recalls, no politics, no wheel falling off accidents, just good old fashioned quality products safely used while enhancing health and wellness.

PS: I am all for the CPSC and what they do. On review of their website, I note they have currently recalled a Salsa branded road bike (Quality Bike) for fork failures and a Stromer electric bike for stem failures. Well done CPSC. Nothing in there about recalling all bicycles and wheels of the quick release skewer style.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
The product passed all safety testing.

So did the 737 MAX.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Our BOB stroller got recalled because a baby could pull the backing off the embroidery and choke- that was probably the strangest recall I have seen.

http://www.bobgear.com/...-patch-notice-en.pdf

Not all recalls involve things coming back- lots of times they send you a warning sticker to put on product. I could see that in this case- a warning sticker next to quick release.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Lawyer Lips!
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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The article describes the manufacturer doing exactly that "informing customers" of the quick release. From my bike shop experience, not a single bike or wheel with a quick release skewer comes out of their box without the alert warning about those skewers. I suspect there to be a healthy used market out there and unawares new parents without prior experience and technical documentation of warning who then become dangerous uninformed dumb shit operators.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [knewbike] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, the article mentions those too. Referred as "Indents" and that in testing the BOBs passed without wheels falling off with improper placed skewers because of these lips.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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I read the whole article as well and the only thing I thought BOB was lacking was in actually contacting users of the proper method. They do have a YouTube video but if you didn't know about it, you wouldn't find it.

As soon as I started reading I thought, oh, they probably didn't tighten the skewer enough.

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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Thru-axles. They need thru-axles. Stiffer. More secure. You can really feel it bombing downhill corners at 50MPH.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Pro parents file off the layer tabs for quicker wheel changes.



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah and that is the subject of an entirely different bitch about government agencies, regulations and the essential services and safety certifications they provide : FAA, FDA, EPA, OHSA, NRC etc.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, not tightened skewers were the cause of all accidents. Operator error plain and simple. You tube video was viewed 185 times. Hand me downs, and used market equals hazardous owner operators.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
Yeah and that is the subject of an entirely different bitch about government agencies, regulations and the essential services and safety certifications they provide : FAA, FDA, EPA, OHSA, NRC etc.


Well just testing in general. The real world is extraordinarily complex. Particularly when bringing in human factors (like new parents without significant prior mechanical device experience, or even trained pilots). It's impossible to test for every scenario. It's extraordinarily expensive to test for even a large portion. I'd imagine there was no test for how the stroller responds to an poorly fastened QR. Or possibly insufficient testing for how different pilots respond in a 737 Max when an AoA sensor goes bad. So the testing usually covers just enough to give a reasonable assurance of basic safety. I think that's fine. If we wanted complete safety we'd be bitching about excessive regulation and it taking 5 years and $50M in fees to bring a product to market.

I think the general approach of getting products out with a basic level of testing, then handling issues after the fact is fine.

Edit: Of course "basic" is context dependent. Clearly "basic" for the 737 Max is different than "basic" for a stroller.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 4, 19 10:04
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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If there are rules for bike racers to keep them safe, why not a child stroller?

Bikes have "lawyer tabs" on the forks so that the wheel still won't fall out if the QR skewer is disengaged. Even the UCI is checking for teams shaving off the "lawyer tabs" to make wheel changes faster, but less safe.

The Bob stroller does not, check the pictures online.

So, do your research before spewing a bunch of political nonsense.

https://www.velonews.com/...rule-in-qatar_274065
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Fun fact about BOB strollers. I know the guy who founded and eventually sold that company (for untold millions). Have spent a couple weeklong bike vacations with him in CA putting in 500+ miles per week. That dude can ride the legs off of just about anyone!
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Oh the irony.

Bob Strollers inset the entire quick release nut. So you're correct there's no visible tab but only because the entire fork end is shaped to act as a much larger and more securetab than is required on bikes.

Watch 40 seconds in here (also known as "do your research"):

https://www.youtube.com/...44&v=8mRqD7xD23k



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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The Thule strollers are better anyways.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
If there are rules for bike racers to keep them safe, why not a child stroller?

Bikes have "lawyer tabs" on the forks so that the wheel still won't fall out if the QR skewer is disengaged. Even the UCI is checking for teams shaving off the "lawyer tabs" to make wheel changes faster, but less safe.

The Bob stroller does not, check the pictures online.

So, do your research before spewing a bunch of political nonsense.

https://www.velonews.com/...rule-in-qatar_274065
While I did not mean to spew political nonsense, I was somewhat incensed at the content of the article and should have been more focused as to the political points I wanted to make.

First, it is intuitively obvious that the BOB front wheel losses, with or without fork tabs, is a skewer issue and if a skewer on any wheel is correctly tensioned and positioned then wheels do not fall off. I stand ready to be corrected if bikes of yesteryear without fork tabs and with correctly installed qr skewers were subject to wheels flying off.
Second, nowhere in the article was there explicit mention of operator error as the cause for a wheel falling off. Ignorance and/or a lack of curiosity on how mechanical things are to work or how to be installed on the part of operators of said mechanical things is a serious fault line. I would draw a corollary that if I had to change a flat tire on my car and did not know how to correctly tighten my lug nuts and then had the wheel fall off. Should the CPSC recall all cars because lug nuts are a poor design and insufficient to keep the wheel attached? Or was I at fault? And then that brings me to the politics

The article was all about the political makeup of the 5 commission members and how, were it a democratic majority membership, then the vote to recall would have been otherwise. By extension we should then blame Trump because he selected the last 2 republicans to the commission. I thought it was a low blow and too much of a stretch to devote some many column inches to a poorly written article.

As a never Trumper, who is a socially compassionate and fiscally conservative ex-republican, I am trying real hard to see the good governance aspect, and not the over governance aspect, of democratic party policy. This little case study of the CPSC and " I'm from the federal government and I am here to help" while placing little to no regard on each citizens own personal responsibility and accountability does not help me earn my democrat merit badges. That's all.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Finding your political identity in a jogging stroller is probably a bad idea. FWIW I have a B.O.B. Stroller and it's fine.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
I stand ready to be corrected if bikes of yesteryear without fork tabs and with correctly installed qr skewers were subject to wheels flying off.


From Sheldon Brown, who also thinks people are idiots......but he still says this about "lawyer tabs":

As "lawyer lips" have become the norm, they have gradually become more important than they originally were, for two reasons:
  • The prevalence of these secondary retention systems in front, and vertical dropouts in the rear has caused the proliferation of inferior skewer designs that are cheaper to manufacture, but much less secure than traditional skewers.

As for regulation and government, I can give the argument a "pass" when it deals with things not related to safety. Why not go really "throwback" and get incensed about how "lawn darts" got banned. Freaking idiots throwing spears at each other! Couldn't they hit the target! Or, Park/Reverse/Drive interlocks on cars for having the foot on the brake to do certain things. Oh, the horror!


The reason people can't take the right seriously on "less regulation" is because quite often it's simply a freebie to big business.


I concede, most non idiots would probably get the skewer correct. But, the design is such that there aren't any lawyer tabs. And if Sheldon is right, which I'd assume given the Chinese trash sold these days........then corners have been cut on skewers over time making them maybe just a touch more prone to user error.




If we've got rules forbidding professional bike teams from filing off the lawyer tabs on race bikes, where being faster to change a wheel is part of their freaking job........but a kid's stroller doesn't have them...............c'mon.......try another "regulation" argument.


If you came in saying you disagree with mandatory backup cameras or lane diversion cameras......I'd have maybe given it more of a look.


The Bob stroller isn't a great platform for the argument, there's much better ones with which (God forbid) some of us on the left might agree with you on.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
Finding your political identity in a jogging stroller is probably a bad idea. FWIW I have a B.O.B. Stroller and it's fine.

I would offer that trying to understand the composition of our political parties differences and the rationale for those differences wherever found is a meaningful endeavor worthy of all conflicted citizens. I am thankful to have thoughtful debate with Burnthesheep and yourself in the hope of finding resolution to my conflict. FWIW, when my daughter decides to acquire a second hand B.O.B. jogger, I will be sure to instruct her on qr skewers. I will be content knowing that the manufacturer has not been overtly hindered by the government and is putting a quality product on the market that enhances and not threatens our lives.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
gofigure wrote:
I stand ready to be corrected if bikes of yesteryear without fork tabs and with correctly installed qr skewers were subject to wheels flying off.


From Sheldon Brown, who also thinks people are idiots......but he still says this about "lawyer tabs":

As "lawyer lips" have become the norm, they have gradually become more important than they originally were, for two reasons:
  • The prevalence of these secondary retention systems in front, and vertical dropouts in the rear has caused the proliferation of inferior skewer designs that are cheaper to manufacture, but much less secure than traditional skewers.
Fine line approaches here between part failure and operator error. Have used many inferior skewers without failure.




As for regulation and government, I can give the argument a "pass" when it deals with things not related to safety. Why not go really "throwback" and get incensed about how "lawn darts" got banned. Freaking idiots throwing spears at each other! Couldn't they hit the target! Or, Park/Reverse/Drive interlocks on cars for having the foot on the brake to do certain things. Oh, the horror!

The CPSC serves the public well. The politics of board membership was written into the legislation in order to provide balance. I hate to think a truly significant public safety issue would escape enforcement action on a partisan basis


The reason people can't take the right seriously on "less regulation" is because quite often it's simply a freebie to big business.

Not all defense of business is seated in the lazy, easy, simple, freebie notion.


I concede, most non idiots would probably get the skewer correct. But, the design is such that there aren't any lawyer tabs. And if Sheldon is right, which I'd assume given the Chinese trash sold these days........then corners have been cut on skewers over time making them maybe just a touch more prone to user error.

The B.O.B. folks in 2016 started with lawyer lips, hopefully the 500,000 pre 2016 owners have through unhurtful experience become learned and are no longer idiots.




If we've got rules forbidding professional bike teams from filing off the lawyer tabs on race bikes, where being faster to change a wheel is part of their freaking job........but a kid's stroller doesn't have them...............c'mon.......try another "regulation" argument.

At the risk of being banished to tri forum, isn't all this tabbing shaving somewhat related to a hub centric disc braking system and increased load on fasteners?


If you came in saying you disagree with mandatory backup cameras or lane diversion cameras......I'd have maybe given it more of a look.

Since we are headed to autonomous driving anyway, why get into a pissing contest on the erosion of both driving skills and personal responsibility that is generated by these cameras.


The Bob stroller isn't a great platform for the argument, there's much better ones with which (God forbid) some of us on the left might agree with you on.

Which is why I was so incensed that my much appreciated and respected WAPO would publish an entire page postulating a political hit job.

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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
Perseus wrote:
Finding your political identity in a jogging stroller is probably a bad idea. FWIW I have a B.O.B. Stroller and it's fine.


I would offer that trying to understand the composition of our political parties differences and the rationale for those differences wherever found is a meaningful endeavor worthy of all conflicted citizens. I am thankful to have thoughtful debate with Burnthesheep and yourself in the hope of finding resolution to my conflict. FWIW, when my daughter decides to acquire a second hand B.O.B. jogger, I will be sure to instruct her on qr skewers. I will be content knowing that the manufacturer has not been overtly hindered by the government and is putting a quality product on the market that enhances and not threatens our lives.

Sounds good. In case you're unaware the second hand BOB market can be a little ridicules. When we were looking BOB was rolling out an all new model and REI had the current model discounted. With the sale the price between a new stroller and a used was less than $100.
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Re: BOB strollers, the CPSC and today's politics [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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What is the right answer?

It's somewhere between having kids wear helmets to walk and having absolutely zero regs. Somewhere between Leslie Knope and Ron Swanson.

Coal ash is a good one.

New regulations forbidding coal power companies storing ash too close to major bodies of water (kind of a duh, no shit Sherlock) seems like something that may incur new future costs, but being future can be predicted. Versus having storms dump all the ash into lakes and rivers by stupidly putting the waste right next to drinking water. Then forcing them to move them after the fact at a likely higher cost.

I think the gap in the system is people purchasing Chinese end-arounds that aren't subject to the same "standard" perhaps.

If it's sold here, it should be a level playing field. Something I agree with Trump on is sticking it to the Chinese on intellectual rights and playing by the same rules. Screw those bastards.
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