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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:

A few things to note:

1.) I'm not asking you to give her accolades. I'm just asking people not to define away the term "self-made billionaire".

But anyone with a shred of critical thinking skills would look at that description, look at Jenner, and figure something isn't quite adding up.

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2.) Your pastry chef analogy is weak because her accomplishment is "billionaire", and no one cares about your accomplishment.

Says you. Have you ever had an English Bay cookie?

If my whole family were famous pastry chefs, and I was now a famous pastry chef, I probably wouldn't call myself a 'self made pastry chef'.

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3.) How many other 24 y/o girls out there have celebrity families, private education, and aren't owners of billion dollar companies they named after themselves?
(Your logic about how easy it all is makes it sound like pretty much all educated celebrities would have to be billionaires by now.)

I'm not saying what she has done isn't hard. But it is a shit load easier when your family has done 90% of the leg work in establishing your family name and brand, which your company's image and wealth depend on entirely. Kaitlyn isn't selling makeup. She's selling the family name.

If Kaitlyn's fortune is self-made, we should declare her a business genius and bow down to her accomplishments in amazement, and hold her in the same regard as people like Bezos or Zuckerberg, who's accomplishments are pretty amazing.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not saying what she has done isn't hard. But it is a shit load easier when your family has done 90% of the leg work in establishing your family name and brand, which your company's image and wealth depend on entirely. Kaitlyn isn't selling makeup. She's selling the family name.
If Kaitlyn's fortune is self-made, we should declare her a business genius and bow down to her accomplishments in amazement, and hold her in the same regard as people like Bezos or Zuckerberg, who's accomplishments are pretty amazing.

So, anyone who's parents paid for college, especially if it's MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc. cannot be self-made?

How much money can you have after college and still be considered self-made?

She didn't inherit "Jenner Inc." or $800mm.

She's not a rags to riches story, but still self-made.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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To me the big difference is that she went into an industry that her family was already involved in, fashion and marketing. Her family already had that infrastructure in place.

Because of that infrastructure she inherently couldn’t have been self made.

It’s like if Michael Jordan’s son went on to be a major agent in basketball/shoe designer/etc. it’s directly related to the help you already had.

Not trying to limit what she has done. But also not going to elevate with “self made”
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
And despite Kylie not being white or male, the first thing dictionary needed to do was establish white male privilege, lol.

You might want to check your sources.
Bruce is English, Celtic, and Dutch. Kris is Dutch, German, English and Celtic.
That makes 100% white...

Her step sisters you could argue are Asian, but since Armenians are literally Caucasian - Armenia is in the South Caucasus region - you'd lose the argument.
The Census defines White as the original peoples of Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. They specifically list German, Italian, Lebanese, Arab, Moroccan, or Caucasian.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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Are we considering Bezos self made?



-----------------------------------------------------------
Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair, or beatings. The world ends when you're dead, until then you're due for more punishment. Stand it like a man. And give some back.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [coecoe13] [ In reply to ]
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Wasn’t his mom in high school when he was born and his dad an oil engineer?
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
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I'm not saying what she has done isn't hard. But it is a shit load easier when your family has done 90% of the leg work in establishing your family name and brand, which your company's image and wealth depend on entirely. Kaitlyn isn't selling makeup. She's selling the family name.
If Kaitlyn's fortune is self-made, we should declare her a business genius and bow down to her accomplishments in amazement, and hold her in the same regard as people like Bezos or Zuckerberg, who's accomplishments are pretty amazing.

So, anyone who's parents paid for college, especially if it's MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc. cannot be self-made?

How much money can you have after college and still be considered self-made?

She didn't inherit "Jenner Inc." or $800mm.

She's not a rags to riches story, but still self-made.

You're being obtuse.

Her success is entirely attributable to her family's brand.

She is not self-made.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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You're being obtuse.
Her success is entirely attributable to her family's brand.

She is not self-made.

No, you are. She was not handed money from her family.

Sure she took advantage of the immense opportunities, but she could have just cruised along like her idiot brother and half brother.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
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You're being obtuse.
Her success is entirely attributable to her family's brand.

She is not self-made.

No, you are. She was not handed money from her family.

Sure she took advantage of the immense opportunities, but she could have just cruised along like her idiot brother and half brother.

She wasn't? You mean someone barely old enough to legally drink grew a billion dollar net worth in a few years all by herself, without any help from her already famous and extremely well-connected family who are in the exact same business that she is?

She must be some kind of supergenius.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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I mean jeez, how does someone barely old enough to get a credit card qualify for business loans to get a company like that off the ground? She must have worked insane hours from the age of 12 or so to get that thing up to speed. She must know absolutely everything there is to know about make up.

Elon musk should probably hire her, he could use that kind of super talent.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Yawn.

Ok, please enlighten us with your definition of "self-made". Do they have to have made every product they sell by hand? Design all of them. Write the accounting software? Never took a loan. Collected cans in the street to start their company. Never went to college? Orphans only?
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Yawn indeed. Honestly, I'm about done spending any more of my day talking about a celebrity I care nothing about. I'm pretty I've already answered your question in my posts.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
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The right focuses so much on justifying the "work" of the 1/10th of 1% of people that they completely ignore the REAL self made people who are small business owners and hard workers in their own communities.


Wrong. The right ARE the small business owners and hard workers, who maybe aspire to even more, and don't take kindly to people denigrating their accomplishments, whether that's making $10k, $100K, $1MM, or a billion dollars.

Is she self made? Well she didn't inherit all, or even most of the money, so yeah.

Is she a rags to riches story? Of course not.

This is a classic lefty move. In order to disparage someone else's accomplishments, they redefine something, in this case self-made.

So every business owner is always a natural born conservative and none of them would ever vote anything else. Got it.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
Yawn.

Ok, please enlighten us with your definition of "self-made". Do they have to have made every product they sell by hand? Design all of them. Write the accounting software? Never took a loan. Collected cans in the street to start their company. Never went to college? Orphans only?

Late to the party and only found this after a cross reference from a newer thread...

To me self-made is when you are the driving force behind building the platform upon which the fortune is made. Others can pay for your education but you need to be responsible for building the platform upon which the success flows. What is the actual platform in this instance? If the platform is the actual cosmetics company, then there might be some basis if she was actually the driving force behind it.

Many years ago a local girl in Oz decided that none of the current range of products on the market suited her. She set about creating colours etc she liked and set about building a business that led to her being named young Australian of the Year. At least for a period of time she was a self-made millionaire (the business hit the skids and was bought out by Estee Lauder but by all accounts has done ok releasing a new line). She came up with the idea. She went out and sourced the funding and she built and marketed the business. That business was the platform for her relative success.

I don't see KJ doing any of the above. It seems like the matriarch of the family is the shrewd opportunist here and could see that the millions of social media followers were ripe for buying into some form of fashion/makeup range and capitalise on the name like some of her siblings. No doubt KJ would have had opinions and preferences that could well have been prioritised, but there is a huge machine behind her. However unlike the example cited above, I don't see the range as being the platform upon which the fortune was made.

The platform is the family name and the celebrity surrounding that name that was in place well before she reached adulthood. Without that name and the machine she's just another attractive face (personally I don't view her as being even close to a standout) battling for followers with arguably insufficient business sense to get anything off the ground. Would that range of products have had remotely close to the same level of success had she not been part of that family? No. It may well be a high quality product, but that's likely because the family would have ensured the best possible minds were behind the range so as not to tarnish the broader brand.

She isn't responsible for building the platform, she's a bit player in a much larger machine arguably driven by others and as such I don't believe warrants the title 'self made'.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
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mv2005 wrote:
efernand wrote:
Yawn.

Ok, please enlighten us with your definition of "self-made". Do they have to have made every product they sell by hand? Design all of them. Write the accounting software? Never took a loan. Collected cans in the street to start their company. Never went to college? Orphans only?


Late to the party and only found this after a cross reference from a newer thread...

To me self-made is when you are the driving force behind building the platform upon which the fortune is made. Others can pay for your education but you need to be responsible for building the platform upon which the success flows. What is the actual platform in this instance? If the platform is the actual cosmetics company, then there might be some basis if she was actually the driving force behind it.

Many years ago a local girl in Oz decided that none of the current range of products on the market suited her. She set about creating colours etc she liked and set about building a business that led to her being named young Australian of the Year. At least for a period of time she was a self-made millionaire (the business hit the skids and was bought out by Estee Lauder but by all accounts has done ok releasing a new line). She came up with the idea. She went out and sourced the funding and she built and marketed the business. That business was the platform for her relative success.

I don't see KJ doing any of the above. It seems like the matriarch of the family is the shrewd opportunist here and could see that the millions of social media followers were ripe for buying into some form of fashion/makeup range and capitalise on the name like some of her siblings. No doubt KJ would have had opinions and preferences that could well have been prioritised, but there is a huge machine behind her. However unlike the example cited above, I don't see the range as being the platform upon which the fortune was made.

The platform is the family name and the celebrity surrounding that name that was in place well before she reached adulthood. Without that name and the machine she's just another attractive face (personally I don't view her as being even close to a standout) battling for followers with arguably insufficient business sense to get anything off the ground. Would that range of products have had remotely close to the same level of success had she not been part of that family? No. It may well be a high quality product, but that's likely because the family would have ensured the best possible minds were behind the range so as not to tarnish the broader brand.

She isn't responsible for building the platform, she's a bit player in a much larger machine arguably driven by others and as such I don't believe warrants the title 'self made'.


Did her father deserve to be named Woman of the Year?

Way too many people and media lose their mind over this family, for far too long. The Kardashians perplexing phenomenon.



.
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
She's about as self made as Trump is.


This ^ what's the dollar value of her TV exposure that helped create her massive social media following? That following has created the bulk of her sales. If there was no reality show this thread would be about some other 20 something almost billionaire.

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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly. She was able to get into meetings to pitch her business when other kids her age would be getting thrown out by security.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Is Kylie Jenner a "self made" billionaire? [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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realAB wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
She's about as self made as Trump is.



This ^ what's the dollar value of her TV exposure that helped create her massive social media following? That following has created the bulk of her sales. If there was no reality show this thread would be about some other 20 something almost billionaire.

I have a little trouble assigning a "self-made" moniker to anyone whose money was mostly made just by slapping their name on something. I'm not sure to what extent Jenner's cosmetics and other business ventures have any original content or product associated with them, but it sure seems like most of her money came from putting her name on stuff that already exists.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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