What's the gray zone?

And I guess it depends on the person and the races.

Most every race (and some group rides) I do starts off with 2-3 mins of vo2 or around there, then 30-40 minutes of sweetspot, maybe with a few spurts into vo2 max wattage if there's a little climb, then a 1 min effort at the end if I want.

Very perfectly mimics my sweetspot workouts with just slightly more variability (or maybe less, depending on the route outside). And as such, can be done most days of the week that I'm motivated to do so.

If you're a newer rider of you're having to ride a lot harder than that, then I'd adjust accordingly so as not to conflict with other workouts that may be more suitable.

If you can't recover from the previous effort to go back at it again. Then, it's too much!

---

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

I quit Zwift because I couldn't not race when using it. Not Zwift's fault, my own addiction. I'd tell myself, "Only one race per week," but after a rough day at work or something, I'd talk myself into, "Just a short, flat crit to unwind."

So I'm back to Trainerroad for indoor.

Any?

There’s this really awesome thing, called...

OUTSIDE.

It’s waiting for you.

---

float , hammer , and jog

In Buzz's defense, there are lots of reasons for being inside this time of year. Maybe the roads are full of snow and unsafe, or maybe he/she rides at times of day when the winter sun is setting. I talk to lots of cyclists in the North who said their smart trainer / Zwift setup was the choice they made over buying a fat tire bike with the same dolalrs. Then I talk to other cyclists who say the exact opposite thing, they went Fat Tire. To each his own.

I found that during my early season build, it hurt my overall progress. I was better served sticking to a training plan. As the race season gets close, I'll start doing one a week, it helps develop the top-end and gets you used to those really hard efforts. I'm reluctant to do any more than that because I feel more specific training sessions yield better results. A couple seasons ago I went all out on Zwift and I didn't make the progress I should have been able to make.

The ole outside is best, zwift is yucky post. Every zwift topic is good for one of these.

I did a 90 minute trainer ride today all the while being able to talk and laugh with my boys while they watched me ride and played with their trains on the floor. My wife was able to converse with me about how her wedding went (she’s a florist).

It’s great, I can hop on and get a ride in anytime I have a chance without having to commute or worry about traffic. I get it, riding outside is great but you can’t just write off indoor training. For some of us, it’s an excellent option and allows us to get the miles in.

As for the original question: I can only do one or two zwift races a week or my other training suffers. I’ll do group rides if I really need a distraction without killing myself in races.

The snow banks on the side of my driveway are now 4 feet tall right now. Not everyone lives somewhere where they can ride outside year round

---

Matt

Unfortunately the answer for most will reveal itself in that June to August/September time frame

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

3 aspects to consider. One is recovery time and how that impacts your other training. The second is what training benefit you're getting from the racing versus doing structured training that's appropriate for whatever training phase you're in. Third is enjoyment - racing is fun and reminds us why we do all this training, so even if it's not the optimal use of your training time it can be worth fitting it in.

I've not got into Zwift racing yet, but I do like to do 2 groups rides per week - a 90 minute midweek ride which is basically a race, and a long weekend ride which is usually a bit more measured apart from the designated sprint spots at halfway and the end, but can occasionally be absolutely brutal if a few strong riders decide to turn it into a hammerfest. Both rides are very much the case where I'm not really looking much at power until after the ride. In terms of recovery they're not really an issue, I can fit them into my week with no problem. Training benefit can be much more of a problem. Right now I'm on a pure cycling focus where I ride 6-7 days/week. So those 2 unstructured rides are balanced with 4-5 structured rides which feels about right. But there was a time when I was in base training and only riding 3-4 times per week (with a lot of running) so those unstructured rides made up the majority of my bike training. Looking back now I can see that that led to a bit of a plateau later in the season - I made a lot of quick fitness gains, particularly in my power for shorter intervals and my ability to recover and go again. But it was too polarised between shortish intervals hammering at the front and easy spinning in the pack, I wasn't spending enough time doing the long sweet spot efforts that underpin gains later in the season. Worth hindsight I needed to either limit myself to 1 of those rides, or incorporate at least one more structured sweet spot ride per week.

Also depends a bit on your personality. I'm not good at holding back in a group ride to stick to a training plan, I inevitably get carried away and end up hammering it (which is also why I enjoy them so much!). Others are much better at riding to their plan. Guess this may also be easier to do in Zwift than outdoors.

 
Thanks .. so yeah I have been counting it as 'sweet spot' as the average wattages are similar. I just wonder if the stimulus is too different for that to be valid.

For me, a typical SS workout is 3x20 or 4x20 on 2 min rest, at dead steady output, in the same area (maybe a little lower) as the average I'd do in a one hour zwift race.

But I guess what I'm saying is that 1 hour zwift race will have lulls, attacks, climbs, etc, so is very different in terms of the load. Or is it?

I know its not hitting the same stimulus as my 4x8' and 6x5' sessions, but I guess I want to believe that it is a fair substitute for those deadly boring SS intervals.

If I do 3x races / week, I do 2(maaaaybe 3) weeks “on” and then 1 full week of no intensity.

I’ve “zwift raced” myself into two nasty sicknesses over the last 2 years. Pneumonia and Flu - few weeks to recover and function again for both.

Even tho i think I’m Superman, my Body just gets SO worn down racing that much, no matter how I think I “feel”

I also stopped seeing meaningful gains after this “structure” (although I had a blast)

So while the specific number prob varies for each person , I’d suggest
- make sure you get enough sleep. Racing at your limit frequently is tough on your body
- take off weeks to recover
- 4-5 days / week at 80 TSS for an hour Is probably better for your gains than 3@95 and 1-2 @20. But racing is sooo fun :)

I've been kind of thinking about this myself lately. I have an IM at the end of June that is my focus, and I'll begin my 'official' block of IM training in about two weeks.

For the past few months I've been doing 2-3 Zwift races a week, varying from some shorter 20' efforts up to well over an hour for going up the Alpe de Zwift. My volume for biking has been around 5-7 hours a week for the past few months, and I've seen a decent bump up in overall power. I managed almost 5w/kg at a indoor TT a few weeks ago, which was an all time best over around 16'. I definitely enjoy the Zwift races - digging deep is fun in a sadistic sort of way. However, I've found that I can never sprint with the top folks at the end - maybe that speaks to my years and years of endurance training with extremely little training at one minute or less power levels.

As my IM race and the tri season near I'll probably go down to one Zwift race a week to focus more on the endurance. I will say that never in the past did I do long sustained efforts near FTP for so long as I have in Zwift races. Hopefully that will translate well to higher power over longer distances as the tri season approaches.

---

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

As is often the case, the answer is 'it depends'. In this case, it depends on what your goals are and what you can handle for bike volume/intensity. There is a big difference between 2x20 and 4x20. I have a hard time holding high end sweet spot training for an hour, but I suspect I could do 4x20...

Anyway, my opinion is that the indoor trainer (utilizing zwift to keep it interesting and steady, unlike outdoors which has risk and the need for stopping at signs limiting the quality of intense training) is awesome for doing harder paces. I try to race twice weekly in the 'off/out' season for triathlon. One effort is a ~20 minute hard vo2max type effort as a race and another is a longer 1-2 hr 'race' trying to hold a lot of sweet spot effort. That has been useful in improving my FTP and it certainly helped me on the bike in 2018 after my first winter of indoor (zwift) cycling. But depending on your age and how much other training you do, you might be able to race more than twice/week...It comes back to what are the goals of the zwift races.



Oh, I believe that it will translate Nate. Your FTP is improving and the short interval hurt that you are learning to absorb will make longer endurance efforts much more tolerable once you get into race specific training. You will likely be able to hold a better IF than previous years on race day. What was your IF for past HIM races? IM races?

If you haven't joined in The Morning Grind Fondo, Wednesday mornings, one could argue that you aren't racing enough.

Lol...


My colleague said that in zwift cycling you share the virtual roads with zwift runners and sometimes there are accidents... Made me wonder if this was a nuisance to either party and if there is already a name for virtual road rage

  
ffs peanut gallery. i play outside. i ski. i ride i run. i normally ski 15 hour weeks and do races and loppets all winter.

but i moved to a big city with an icy winter a long drive from ski trails to go back to school so i am skiing less and zwifting more. you don't need to tell me to go outside. i want to go outside. i miss outside.

the topic was downsides of doing a lot of zwift racing, vs boring timed intervals.