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Re: Reading the Bible [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
One thing that fascinates me about the bible is the actual life of Jesus. He only lived 33 years and his "mission" lasted only 3 years but has anyone in history had such an impact on the world in such a short life?


Alexander the Great?
Tutankhamen

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Reading the Bible [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Perseus wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
Christianity has done a disservice to the Bible, in my opinion.

I don't think many Christians read the Bible. They might memorize a few verses to make themselves feel better, while largely ignoring the context in which they were written.


Bart Ehrman repeats this story at the beginning of a number of his talks. Every year he teaches a couple hundred students in some version of History of Christianity 101. When asked, most raise their hands that they believe the Bible is the literal word of God. Then he asks them how many have read it? It's a small percentage.

I mean, why bother reading what GOD has to say :)

I think about this a lot. I don't understand how you can believe in the God of the Bible, and yet you do not read the Bible.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Perseus wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
Christianity has done a disservice to the Bible, in my opinion.

I don't think many Christians read the Bible. They might memorize a few verses to make themselves feel better, while largely ignoring the context in which they were written.


Bart Ehrman repeats this story at the beginning of a number of his talks. Every year he teaches a couple hundred students in some version of History of Christianity 101. When asked, most raise their hands that they believe the Bible is the literal word of God. Then he asks them how many have read it? It's a small percentage.

I mean, why bother reading what GOD has to say :)

I think about this a lot. I don't understand how you can believe in the God of the Bible, and yet you do not read the Bible.


I have the thought, that i do not understand how you can read the bible and believe in the god of the bible.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Reading the Bible [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw your edit.

No offense at all. Technically your interpretation might be closest, but I still think humanist falls short. My (admittedly lacking) knowledge of humanism as a belief system leads me to believe it wholly places the person and our shared human experience above all else, that humanity is what there is without the possibility of a divinity, or that we are all effectively mini gods of sorts.

I'd argue that falls short of our capability to imagine. I don't for a second believe there's a god "out there" somewhere, some divine being in the sky or elsewhere separate from us. That probably aligns to humanism from my understanding. But while I don't believe there's a god out there or some singular god, I'm agnostic about the belief there's something divine in our shared humanity. It's that "breath of God" thing in the great mythopoetic creation fable in Genesis, that the very essence of the breath providing us life is something divine within us and connecting us all together in our shared world, shared experiences, and shared responsibility toward each other. It's too possible and too easy, in my opinion, to become overwhelmed with the perils of this world and lose sight of that, so I take the beauty of Jesus' teachings as a reminder that it already exists within us and we can find hope, purpose, vitality -- a true meaning of life itself -- by reconnecting to it.

And thinking like this is where it's a challenge for me. I'm not a part of any structured belief system or religion, but I know there are others out there who think like I do on this and use the language I do & there's a hunger for communities and liturgy (liturgy being used in the loosest sense one can imagine) that sound like this. It's hard, because I can tell you philosophically what I think I believe, but I also think in my truest self that to find out what I actually believe it's best to ask those around me what I practice in my life. And that's where I find myself falling short -- doing a lot of good in my community and the lives of those I'm connected with in friendship and family, but probably not even going to the edge yet of what I profess to believe. I hope the pushing deeper into practice pushes me to continue further. Or I could just do some shrooms and crack these thoughts open even wider. (Never have done shrooms, but I hear they can b helpful for this stuff.)

(And as I type this I hear this lyric from Bear's Den on my speaker, "Don't let your mind speak louder than your heart." Seems appropriate.)




ACE wrote:
Edited this to add I again did not mean to offend if you do not consider yourself a humanist, it was just my interpretation of your belief system.

Do you identify as a member of any certain religion or belief system? I honestly have not heard someone that quotes and relies on biblical stories and scripture the way you do with the meaning you give it.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
I guess that's the problem I had with the whole Bible at a young age. So many unanswered questions needing interpretation. It would be nice if the divinely inspired word of God was a little more straight forward. I've often been told that parts of it don't apply but I've never seen a good criteria for determining the literal parts from the non-literal parts.
That's a fair assessment. Few people read and study the Bible, as a result they do not understand the context, or the cultural implications. I also think if people took a moment to pause and understand the context of the text (Who is the author? Is he writing to a group of people or providing a historical account?) they'll get a much clearer picture. Some Bibles provide this information before each book.
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Re: Reading the Bible [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
I have the thought, that i do not understand how you can read the bible and believe in the god of the bible.
That's fair.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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To be fair, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of scholarship. It's probably not an arrogant characterization to say I know a lot about the Bible and possess deeper knowledge than most people & an ability to understand various lenses and cultural implications, but I am nowhere near the level of understanding of scholarly; my blind spots are numerous. That said, I have little doubt my understanding of it is better than that of most pastors, but most pastors are far from being as schooled in the Bible as actual Biblical studies folks. It's an ever-changing topic based on the current culture and what we might know about the culture it was written in, which probably makes it all the more fascinating and applicable to the way we speak around it in contemporary times.




Perseus wrote:
Thom wrote:
I guess that's the problem I had with the whole Bible at a young age. So many unanswered questions needing interpretation. It would be nice if the divinely inspired word of God was a little more straight forward. I've often been told that parts of it don't apply but I've never seen a good criteria for determining the literal parts from the non-literal parts.

That's a fair assessment. Few people read and study the Bible, as a result they do not understand the context, or the cultural implications. I also think if people took a moment to pause and understand the context of the text (Who is the author? Is he writing to a group of people or providing a historical account?) they'll get a much clearer picture. Some Bibles provide this information before each book.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I have the thought, that i do not understand how you can read the bible and believe in the god of the bible.
That's fair.

As an atheist, i also wish more christians actually read the bible. So i guess we are in agreement.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Reading the Bible [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Jesus said that if we don't worship him and/or his father we will be punished eternally. Those are the words of a psychopath. "Out of context" seems to be the default defense, how am I taking that out of context.


I meant that you are taking the purpose of Jesus' life and death out of context.

Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the laws of the old testament but to full the laws. That means the law of the Old Testament. So he didn't condone things like slavery, he died so there was no longer a requirement to follow the laws of the Old Testament to be saved from your sins. He died so from that point on, salvation is through faith in God, not through the laws set up by the Old Testament. When you said Jesus condoned things from the Old Testament, it's not really accurate.

People often say they can't believe in a God who would sentence you to death for not believing in him but when you do that, you are taking on the role of God. You're essentially saying that God (if you believe in him) is wrong and I know better and here is what I think he should do. It's like a cafeteria plan, people pick and choose the parts of the bible they like and ignore the parts they don't.

I don't like pushing things on others but I do think that if you read the bible with that mindset or the idea that you are going to find contradictions or if you get upset when God passes judgement which you don't agree with, then you're going to miss out on a lot of the good things in the bible. I think you have to read the entire thing with an open mind and then make your own assessment.


Last edited by: Sanuk: Feb 1, 19 13:49
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Re: Reading the Bible [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Timing is everything in life. My wife is a semi-practicing catholic. Last night I asked her if God knew everything. She said of course. I said if god knows everything why did he have to destroy the Earth with a flood? She said it's because God gave us free will to be good or bad and bad won out. I said since you believe that God already knew the future, he knew he would have to destroy the Earth because of evil, where is the free will of man if the destruction was already known and planned? Silence. Welcome to my world. Yes, I am a godless heathen.


According to the bible, when god flooded the world, only Noah and his 3 sons and their wives survived (iirc). So 1st cousins had to breed.
The story of Noah is much older than the old testament and the flood was originally sent as humans were being too noisy and disturbing the gods.
Last edited by: Sun Wu Kong: Feb 4, 19 7:04
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Re: Reading the Bible [Sun Wu Kong] [ In reply to ]
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Sun Wu Kong wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Timing is everything in life. My wife is a semi-practicing catholic. Last night I asked her if God knew everything. She said of course. I said if god knows everything why did he have to destroy the Earth with a flood? She said it's because God gave us free will to be good or bad and bad won out. I said since you believe that God already knew the future, he knew he would have to destroy the Earth because of evil, where is the free will of man if the destruction was already known and planned? Silence. Welcome to my world. Yes, I am a godless heathen.


According to the bible, when god flooded the world, only Noah and his 3 sons and their wives survived (iirc). So 1st cousins had to breed.
The story of Noah is much older than the old testament and the flood was originally sent as humans were being too noisy and disturbing the gods.

Ok. But any god that would commit genocide simply because they were noisy is not a god worthy or worship. Certainly not one I would worship or support.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
Sun Wu Kong wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Timing is everything in life. My wife is a semi-practicing catholic. Last night I asked her if God knew everything. She said of course. I said if god knows everything why did he have to destroy the Earth with a flood? She said it's because God gave us free will to be good or bad and bad won out. I said since you believe that God already knew the future, he knew he would have to destroy the Earth because of evil, where is the free will of man if the destruction was already known and planned? Silence. Welcome to my world. Yes, I am a godless heathen.


According to the bible, when god flooded the world, only Noah and his 3 sons and their wives survived (iirc). So 1st cousins had to breed.
The story of Noah is much older than the old testament and the flood was originally sent as humans were being too noisy and disturbing the gods.


Ok. But any god that would commit genocide simply because they were noisy is not a god worthy or worship. Certainly not one I would worship or support.

Yeah but if he's the one and only God you really don't have a choice in the matter, given the alternative :)

Before Catholicism became the orthodoxy there were types of Christianity that tried to reconcile the awful God of the OT with the God of Jesus usually by denying they were the same God.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
Sun Wu Kong wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
Timing is everything in life. My wife is a semi-practicing catholic. Last night I asked her if God knew everything. She said of course. I said if god knows everything why did he have to destroy the Earth with a flood? She said it's because God gave us free will to be good or bad and bad won out. I said since you believe that God already knew the future, he knew he would have to destroy the Earth because of evil, where is the free will of man if the destruction was already known and planned? Silence. Welcome to my world. Yes, I am a godless heathen.


According to the bible, when god flooded the world, only Noah and his 3 sons and their wives survived (iirc). So 1st cousins had to breed.
The story of Noah is much older than the old testament and the flood was originally sent as humans were being too noisy and disturbing the gods.


Ok. But any god that would commit genocide simply because they were noisy is not a god worthy or worship. Certainly not one I would worship or support.
It's alright, I don't think many people worship Enki anymore.
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Re: Reading the Bible [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
Jesus was pretty clear that he was there to fulfill the laws of the old testament. So if stoning people for blasphemy or working on Sunday falls under the definition of peace, then sure.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

Sometimes a simple grammar analysis points out how seeming contradictions really aren't. But it does take study to see the resolution of those paradoxes. Reading further (like Acts 15) will also show why your interpretation doesn't square with the rest of the NT. It really is a coherent whole.


This song reminded me of this thread...

◼︎ We shall soon be in a world in which a man may be howled down for saying that two and two make four, in which people will persecute the heresy of calling a triangle a three-sided figure, and hang a man for maddening a mob with the news that grass is green. - Chesterton
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