That was much ado about nothing. No chance for that to get it done.

The parties are so dug in this is going nowhere.

Just declare the emergency and get people back to work.

I'm not even sure what I think of DACA. I can see solid arguments both ways//

I'm curious as to the argument you see that sends kids back to a country they never knew, may not speak the language, and had no input when they came here as young children? Kids who have lived here their entire memorable lives, gone to schools here, and know no other place as home? What exactly is that argument that you can see? Honest question....

I don't see why the Dems decided to take the DOA path on this proposal. Seems to me a great opportunity to come back with a counter to include permanent DACA, longer/broader TPS, perhaps a few other concessions. The position Trump has now put the Dems in is 1) they're rejecting a DACA solution they want/support; 2) they're rejecting a TPS solution they want/support; 3) they're rejecting enhanced border security beyond the wall funding (more border agents, drug detection technology for ports, etc) which they state they support.

Harder for the Dems to make statements about Dreamers and strong support for border security while rejecting this proposal as DOA.

I think Trump should do two things: declare a national emergency and fund the wall as well as the spend for broader border security as outlined in his offer AND extend DACA and TPS per his proposal. The courts may reject the national security approach but he can get a win politically and put the Dem leadership in a corner. Assuming he can do all of this with an exec order he doesn't need McConnell or other Pubs to support any of it.

His message? (I don't remember how to communicate like a 5th grader so I'll just say it straight) - I'm getting the funding for the wall by declaring a national emergency and will therefore implement the aspects of my offer because I was willing to do so if the Dems were supportive. Just because they've abandoned Dreamers and TPS recipients and won't fund stronger border security doesn't mean I won't do right by our country....

Something like that.

Permanent DACA is DOA for Trump and his base. He offered to extend temporary DACA protections, but that is held up in court anyway, so he has nothing to offer. He is truly offering a temporary hold on a policy which doesn't presently exist, and you think that Dems will take heat for this? He can't open negotiations further, because he will destroy his base, and he is already on the hook for the shutdown. Border crossings have been dropping for the past decade. Here are border crossing apprehensions (by year):




Is that your national emergency?

it's not 'My' national emergency. it's Trump's national emergency. and if you add drugs coming across your graphic might dramatically change, but facts, in either case, don't matter. More than one illegal will cross.

I'm simply laying out what I think the Dems should do (grab more substantive concessions for the $5.7b) and what I think Trump should do (declare the national emergency and give the concessions). The courts might kill all of this but I'm simply providing both sides my own opinion of how they might proceed. Not that they asked me and not that it'd work or are valid ideas.

I take pleasure in being the only American prepared to offer suggestions for both sides to allow the stupid shutdown to end. I'm very proud of myself and will fly an extra large American Flag in front of my house. Well, after our cleaning lady from Honduras is done and the Mexican painters in the garage finish their work and I can park our Japanese cars back in the garage while I watch the Brits' new GT show and eat some pizza. We are an all-American, patriotic household.

If we implement DACA, do we say all those who are here as of 1/19/2019 and no more or do we say that for evermore people brought as children and stay for x years are not to be deported? If we say that today and no more, children in the future get put in the same position. If we say for evermore we put a huge incentive for people to enter with their children illegally and stay hidden as long as possible to qualify for DACA.

I have a strong inclination to allow people to enter who want to come to the US to become part of the country. I have great sympathy for people in this situation. But implementing DACA does not solve this problem and I wonder if it exacerbates it.

I also strongly favor legal immigration. For the vast majority of people in Mexico and Central America there is no viable path to US residency under current law so there will always be a draw for illegal immigration. I don't see that changing any time soon.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

The right is already being harsh on trump for doing anything pro DACA. Moving the needle further would be out of the question.

If the option was full DACA rights (citizenship or legal resident)in place. I think it would pass. But extending the protections for what is the status quo doesn’t make any sense.

I mean this is politics. Not a prisoners delemia. No one is ever going to be perfectly happy. You come up with solutions where both sides can live with the agreeement.

trumps form of a deal is I get everything I want. And for you, you get to temp fix problems I created. This is just horrible negotiating. Because once the temp protections are up. Trump will do the same thing and have another bargaining chip.

And immediately after that, seek the help of a mental health expert.

The right or the far right? I am open minded, and I appreciaste the views of Bill Kristol, George Conway, Charlie Sykes, Jonah Goldberg, etc as much as Van Jones, Chris Mathews, Ronan Darrow,... I haven't seen anything from those on the "right" that are being harsh for pro DACA. Now nut job righties like Limbaugh and Coulter? Sure, but screw them dipshits. As far as I am concerned they are truly RINOs. I long for the conservatives of old.

I mean isn’t the far right his base? These are the people he literally speaks to rush and coulter). These are his sounding boards.

Most of us wish for the conservatives of old. Trump was the first gop president I didn’t vote for. This last year was the first senate race I didn’t vote for the republican.

Yes, but you said "the right". Don't confuse "the right" with idiots like Limbaugh, Coulter, and all their followers (some of which lurk in here).

so you don’t think trumps base is the right. The right is more centrist than trump? The gop has moved all of its platforms to align with trumpism.

You look at so many things. Debt. Foreign policy. Tax breaks to various companies. The gop now doesn’t care because this is new right.

So 2 things. 1. Trump should not end the shutdown without legislation in hand. No promise of negotiations will be met if he re-opens govt. 2. Trump should not declare a national emergency and re-open the gov. If he does, it will be held up in courts for years and nothing will get done.

The fact is, Dems hate Trump and will not negotiate. Trump made the first move, offering something that the Dems have wanted. We all know that neither the Dems or Pubs care about the dreamers. This is just showing that they are just political pawns in all this. But in this case, at least the pubs made an offer. Now it is up to Nancy to counter. If she doesn't, this becomes her shutdown.

I would say, and you may agree, that true conservatives did not vote for Trump. The "Republican party" of Trump does not espouse the ideals of traditional conservatism nor Republicanism. Trumps base pulled from those who in the past voted for either party. Trumps base is a whole other element. Let us just call them whackadoos. The Republican party has moved its positions to align with Trump out of fear of losing a majority. It is a bad strategy, and it is doesn't represent the positions of more princpaled politicians like Ben Sasse or past senators Flake or Corner. Mitch McConnell is running scared as Trump is more popular than he is in KY, home of the MAGA teens who ridicule Native American Vietnam vets. Where's Bob Dole when you need him...

Yes I agree.

But in that case trump doesn’t care about the right. My initial statement should have just said his base

Isn’t it first up to the senate?