Who knows what people believe any more.

If you listen to the Trump apologists (who didn't vote for him, though), his Wall has now morphed into something even more metaphoric and symbolic than Pink Floyd's.

A physical Wall is important to a guy like Trump. He is all about having some edifice associated with his name.
That he chose a wall reflects poorly on his admiration of dictatorial regimes. The East Germans had the 'Berlin Wall', The North Koreans have the DMZ fence.
He wants the TRUMP wall to separate the US from one of its biggest trading partners. SAD!

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

This wall thing is quite possibly the dumbest idea a president has ever pushed for.

It should never be built.

It never even be brought up again.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Boy it's pretty hard to track down.

This is the actual text within H.R. 695 (passed Hizzle, not Snizzle), I think: "Sec. 141. Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, there is appropriated for ‘U.S. Customs and Border Protection—Procurement, Construction, and Improvements’ $5,710,357,000 for fiscal year 2019, to remain available until September 30, 2023."

That's it. As far as I can tell. The whole thing. I could be wrong. There's a lot of text.

But wow, just wow. That's just a slush fund as written. It doesn't even say it has to be used for construction intended to reduce the number of illegal entries across the southern border. It's just "Here's $5.7B for stuff." Most of the other line items at least state a purpose, like this one for the Air Force to clean up after hurricane damage, "For an additional amount for “Operation and Maintenance, Air Force”, $400,000,000, for necessary expenses related to the consequences of Hurricanes Michael and Florence..."

It's $5 billion out of a federal budget of nearly $4 trillion. We probably spend more than that on grants for various academic and scientific studies, like whether fat lesbians are depressed around Christmas time, and other miscellaneous wastes of government time, so I don't see the big fuss over it. Just get it built and let's see if it works in cutting down on the number of illegals crossing over the southern border. If it doesn't, then tear it down and try something else.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

This position of let’s just built it and see what happens though is pretty stupid.

Apply it to other things. Let’s just fund health care for all and see what happens. Let’s just fund free college and see what happens. Etc.

The allocation required for the wall is actually 25 bil

Some estimates are up to $70b...

Blast proof buildings aren't cheap, and he wants one almost 2000 miles long

Physical security is a mature systems engineering discipline. There are existing fences and walls all over the world. The DOE and DOD have sophisticated simulations that estimate the effectiveness of physical security systems to a wide variety of intrusion, from amateur to special operations-quality. We don't have to build a wall to find out how they work. We know how they work.

I say "systems engineering" because physical barriers are almost always considered to be part of a system, rather than a standalone feature. They're a delaying mechanism against motivated intruders to buy time for personnel or other forms of interdiction. So after the $25-$75B for a wall, get ready to also up the DHS budget by ~$10B or more per year to effectively "man" the wall. (Compare all that to the cost of broadly enforcing e-verify).

The wall is a silly vanity project. That's all. It's not based on any study on cost-effectiveness or a systems engineering estimate. Trump himself probably knows nothing about the practice of physical security. Nor does his base (generally speaking). Trump found that it provides a strong emotional response among a percentage of the population. So he's running with it.

So stop playing stupid.

Maybe $5B is just the cost to let Trump play in his little sandbox, so the rest of the Government can get on with the business of governing. But let's not pretend it has very much at all to do with the real methodology of physical security.

    https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/...-appropriations-bill

the breakdown here shows customs and border protection at 11.18 billion

I think the trick for Trump would be to get whatever he wants folded into the Farm Bill, just passed at 867B, it seems to get a pass without hard scrutiny every time, due to the range of stuff (and pork) that is covered.

Are they?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Universal healthcare.. won't work, we can't afford it, not worth trying.
Gun control.. won't work, we can't afford, it not worth trying.
University education for those who qualify academically.. won't work, we can't afford it, not worth trying.

$5bn for a Trump ego boost.. sure, why not!

To say nothing of the environmental damage building a wall the length of the southern border would cause, as well as disruptions to farmers, appropriation of private land, and a massive waste of money, time and effort.

Oh, but hey, let’s build a giant white elephant and see if it does any good...

Just get it built and let's see if it works in cutting down on the number of illegals crossing over the southern border. If it doesn't, then tear it down and try something else.


I don't think money is the real issue although the $5B keeps being paraded around even though the figure will certainly be well in excess of $20B. I wonder why Trump never uses the real figure?


The real message is that the U.S can't protect it's borders without a wall even though they have done that since the country was formed. Why, in 2018 with illegal immigration down and the technology advancements around, do you need a wall RIGHT NOW!!!


It also sends a message of isolation and fear, not something you typically associate with a superpower.

It'd be easier to build a wall out of fat Americans. Plus it'd get them up off the couch.

I think you're on to something. A trail from Border Field State Park in CA to Port Isabel in TX that people could just walk continuously and call in reports would be awesome.

There is really some astonishingly beautiful terrain. Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument is unreal.

I've already walked most of the CA and AZ parts. I'd be all over it, per my handle. The U.S. is missing a good east-west through hike trail. Everything goes north-south (PCT, AT, CDT).

Here. Problem solved. Now can we move on to something more important than this silly wall and its gargantuan cost of $5 billion (the federal government spends more on mustard for school lunches) and all the world-wrecking problems it'll cause if it goes up and all those illegals stay home and are unable to pick our lettuce?

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

the fact that America spends more on other things is a crap argument, since

1) it doesn't make the wall a good idea, and
2) 5 billion is still a lot of money.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

$26m for the Mueller investigation is somehow bankrupting the country, but $5bn is suddenly peanuts.
Amazing.

What an amazing coincidence. I heard those exact two points -- plus a third about some sort of "environmental damage" nonsense -- from several DNC spokesmouthpieces and "Democratic strategists" this morning and over the last few days.

We don't know if the wall is a good idea or a bad idea. All we have are opinions about that. Physical barriers do make some sense when it comes to various kinds of security processes and procedures, though. And walls are as old as civilization's first national borders, from what I recall (not to mention the walls various nations erected around their so-called fortress cities throughout history). Also, if you look at what Hungary did a few years ago, when it finally had had enough of the in-migration from various parts of non-Europe, it seems their border barriers may have acted somewhat effectively as a deterrent.

So what's the big deal about a southern barrier? The cost is something like .13% of a federal budget of $3.7 trillion dollars. Basically, a rounding error.

Still, it's nice to see Democrats and liberals become so fiscally conservative of late. Because that $5 billion would definitely be the straw that broke the federal budget camel's back, oh woe is us.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

For an East/West trail option, check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/.../North_Country_Trail

Added bonus of not seeing a wall along a national border too.

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Ryan

Dang. Going to have to try that sumbitch. Sounds like it would be really hard to do in one shot, though, because winter doesn't sound fun up there.

Well, if you are feeling extra crazy there is a winter ultra on a nearby trail in MN. The Arrowhead 135. Run, bike or ski it.

http://www.arrowheadultra.com

Showing your ignorance again BK...

so:

You go to the supermarket and see a loaf of wonderbread that costs $45 plus $5 per month in perpetuity.

You reason that buying this bread is a good idea because:
a) humans have been making bread for millennia, and it is therefore a proven way to fill a belly, and
2) you spend thousands annually on food, so really $45 down and $5/month is a drop in the bucket, and
3) and anyway there's no point debating it, you might as well just buy it to see if the bread is any good.

if you disagree, it must be because you're one of those liberal mouthpieces.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/