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Re: WTF! NFL Officials [Frank] [ In reply to ]
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Frank wrote:
How do you explain these two comments of yours then?

"The NFL has already displayed a plethora of League-directed biases for and against certain teams."

"No one said the individual owners have direct influence over the individual games."

How and by whom, then, is responsible for the "plethora of League-directed biases for and against certain teams"? I'm asking honestly. Do you think it's from the ref's themselves? Goodell? (If it's Goodell then I would think the owners *would* be involved...)

Again, I think you give the NFL waay too much credit.

Pretty sure I answered all of this earlier in the thread.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: WTF! NFL Officials [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
I agree Jones is a big voice (biggest) at the NFL table, without a doubt. He is clearly as one of the articles states is the one that "pulls the strings" in the NFL. That is not what I was debating. But pivot and redirect if you must to get your shot in.

What I was responding to was the "tilt the field" and "officiating bias" comment. How do you interpret those comments? I take them to be very different than Jones' influence over the leagues management as you and your articles suggest- and with what we agree on.

Clearly, all of Jones' enormous influence doesn't positively impact or "tilt the field" in favor of the Cowboys' game results (or he sucks at both general management and influencing the game). The suckiness of the refs context of the thread and the comments "tilt the field" and "officiating bias" were taken in that context. But if you have evidence that shows that Jerry Jones, specifically, has influenced the game calls or biased an official, I would like to see it.

I chalk up to lack their ability to consistently do their job correctly rather than a great conspiracy or influence from any owner.

Finally, why are you so insecure that you must insult or toss condescending comments towards almost everyone you deal with here? Shake your head all you want, but at least engage/debate like an unemotional adult. Seriously, you can do better. I'm sure you can base your discussion on supportable facts, not memes, insults, and the other crutches you pull out with great frequency.

That's cute, you feigning the victim and all. You took your shot with the McCarthy lead Packers comment and you were bested by my response. Just take it like a man and move on.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: WTF! NFL Officials [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Thom wrote:
I don't have a problem believing the refs have biases, I would be surprised if they didn't. I find it really hard to believe those biases are being directed by the NFL offices.


Why? The NFL has already displayed a plethora of League-directed biases for and against certain teams.

The League decides who gives up a home game to play outside the US. The League decides which teams are and are not required to participate in Hard Knocks. The League decides which games to flex into prime time. The League sets the prime time games. The League sets the fines for players, coaches, teams, etc. The League picks the officiating crews for each team. The League picks the teams and players for NFL promotions.

I guess we just have different definitions, in my mind none of that rises to the level "rigged" or "fixed".
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Re: WTF! NFL Officials [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:
Thom wrote:
I don't have a problem believing the refs have biases, I would be surprised if they didn't. I find it really hard to believe those biases are being directed by the NFL offices.


Why? The NFL has already displayed a plethora of League-directed biases for and against certain teams.

The League decides who gives up a home game to play outside the US. The League decides which teams are and are not required to participate in Hard Knocks. The League decides which games to flex into prime time. The League sets the prime time games. The League sets the fines for players, coaches, teams, etc. The League picks the officiating crews for each team. The League picks the teams and players for NFL promotions.


I guess we just have different definitions, in my mind none of that rises to the level "rigged" or "fixed".

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from and I think we are pretty close. I do not believe the League is directing refs to force a certain outcome in a game. In addition, I do not think that is possible in all cases. Officiating is simply not going to elevate a horrible team over a dominant team. But, what we are certainly seeing is officiating affecting the outcome of the games.

We have also seen, without question, that the League will direct calls on the field. In the first 4 weeks, the League directed officials to flag nearly every hit on the QB and they did. Then the League directed officials to stop throwing the flag on every hit and they did. ESPN had a video showing the QB hits in weeks 1-4 and the hits in weeks 6-10. Nearly identical hits, flagged in the first instance, but not later in the season. So, we know that happens.

I gave examples of how the League picks winners and losers. The League has a ton of influence here. I don't think the League has to overtly direct the officials to favor one team over another with the calls. I think the League makes it clear to the refs who are the winners and the losers and the winners benefit from the calls. Now, is that "fixing" the game? Maybe not, but, it still is not on a level playing field.

And, let's not pretend the officials are neutral. They are not. They are employees of the League who have to bend to the will of the League.

I have handled numerous cases in which it was alleged one group was favored over another. In several of those cases, there was no overt order to favor one group of employees over another. But, what I would hear from the lower lever supervisors it something to the effect of, "Oh, we did not need to be told to favor these workers over those; but it was very clear who was supposed to get the special treatment." I have seen that type of unspoken directive so many times, it is quite easy to see the same thing working in the NFL.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: WTF! NFL Officials [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently, I've touched a nerve. Not playing the victim, just think you can do better than using your crutches. If trying to encourage a higher level of discourse here, from you specifically, what you want to go after, so be it.

So back on topic, since you didn't even address the post. Change my mind with facts and evidence.

Quote:
Clearly, all of Jones' enormous influence doesn't positively impact or "tilt the field" in favor of the Cowboys' game results (or he sucks at both general management and influencing the game). The suckiness of the refs context of the thread and the comments "tilt the field" and "officiating bias" were taken in that context. But if you have evidence that shows that Jerry Jones, specifically, has influenced the game calls or biased an official, I would like to see it.


And while you are at it support this with evidence:

Quote:
I don't think the NFL is scripting the outcome of games or telling the refs to make sure Team A wins and Team B loses. That would be a deep-seeded conspiracy. I think the NFL does subtly influence the refs to favor some teams over others. While not throwing a game completely, there is plenty of evidence of favoritism.

Suffer Well.
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