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Re: Hypothetical track bike shootout: Argon 18, Cervelo, Felt, Pinarello [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Now I'm not entirely sure, here, but my mental visualization seem to say that H does not change when changing from right to left, if I'm understanding H correctly (which I may not be). It's symmetric with respect to linear distance from the track surface. And if H doesn't change, then I think this would corroborate Felt and SuperDave (and all the left-hand-drivers who came before).
But I could have gone wrong at several points here, including selection of valid equations.

Nice find Trail. I believe you have put your finger on the reasoning that might be behind the LHD.
My reason for challenging that line of reasoning is has to do with the forces exerted by the tires on the track. Those contact forces must represent both the weight and the centripetal force. So the tires push down and outward on the track surface. The track pushes back with an equal and opposite force; call this the track reaction force. The line of action (where the vector points) of the track reaction force must pass through the overall bike+rider center of mass. If it didn't the bike would fall over because the tires are free to rotate in the frontal plane about the track surface.
Next time you're riding your bike on a straight road, hang your body off to one side of the bike and observe what happens. The lean angle of the bike will change but your center of mass must remain directly over the tire contact patches. The same thing must happen when riding through a turn but now the lean angle will be influenced by the centripetal term.
Would love to hear from SuperDave or from any of the Felt engineering team on this.
My immediate reaction the first time I saw it was that it was a placebo design. Give the riders something no one else has and tell them its faster. If they believe it, they will likely go faster. Placebo studies have demonstrated up to 6% improvements due to belief so its not something to be dismissed. Perhaps Felt has an engineering staff as well as a sports psych staff.
Cheers,
Jim
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Re: Hypothetical track bike shootout: Argon 18, Cervelo, Felt, Pinarello [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like Argon and “Cervelo” dominated the TP’s in Berlin today!

Also a quick side note, look at the second rider back (Tanfield’s) mono riser on the Argon!

https://www.facebook.com/...410006269394/?type=3
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Re: Hypothetical track bike shootout: Argon 18, Cervelo, Felt, Pinarello [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently, for men TP in Berlin :

1- Australia (Argon)
2 - Danemark (Argon)
3 - Canada (Argon)
4- Huub WattBike (Argon)
5- UK (Cervelo)

Appreciating the marketing efforts made by Huub in cycling.
Last edited by: Pyrenean Wolf: Dec 3, 18 2:49
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Re: Hypothetical track bike shootout: Argon 18, Cervelo, Felt, Pinarello [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, what a cool and informative thread! Sorry the message string is a few months old but I can add a few details:

The only bikes I tested with the same power meter on the same track were my Cervelo T4 vs Felt Tk1. I used the same aerobars and swapped the SRM back and forth during the test session: https://fitwerx.com/...rack-bike-aero-test/

You can see in the photos I required a less-than-ideal Bayonet stem angle on the Felt and also a stack of spacers on the Cervelo to match my position, so those are considerations which could give a different rider slightly different results. Lower front end setups tested slower for me.

Jordan, I actually tried to get that nice R1 Track Wing aerobar but it was out of production at the time and we couldn't come up with one in the early winter 2017, but I also wasn't sure I could get the front end high enough with that R1 stem. The Tula Track Wing let me use any stem so I at least knew I could match the position - and I could get it in time! I wasn't even sure I'd be able to test this setup, and considering I couldn't use a brake to field test outdoors the first time I rode this aerobar was the last session on test day. I'd ridden it on the rollers a few times after setting it up to match the same position and ran through all the UCI legal measurements.

We tested my Felt Tk1 vs the Felt TA FRD with Jim Manton and the Velonews guys in Carson, which was an awesome experience. The data however does use two different power meters - my SRM on my Felt Tk1 and the Vision Stages dual-sided power meter on the TA FRD. The TA FRD sure felt like the fastest thing I'd ridden, but while we came up with some 0.025-0.03 CdA reduction across both frames I'd imagine the real world difference is something less than that. I want one! https://fitwerx.com/...onews-dean-phillips/

Thanks to all the contributors this was a great read!
Dean
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Re: Hypothetical track bike shootout: Argon 18, Cervelo, Felt, Pinarello [Dean Phillips] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the reply Dean! Didn't think about the different Power Meter's.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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