ACE wrote:
Slowman wrote:
ACE wrote:
Slowman wrote:
ACE wrote:
Our society, whether or good or bad, has determined animals ( dogs, the best and most loved domestic animals, sorry cat lovers) are not as valuable as humans.
our society has also determined that zygotes are not as valuable as fully formed people. so, we're good here?
As its stands right now, I guess so. But arguments are made to change things all the time. Added that is doesn't have to be equivalent. We can protect the fully formed person to a greater degree than the potential human and at the same time protecting the potential human.
Why should we as a society sanction terminating "potential life" (potential life being defined as will be a fully conscious human under normal circumstances) for the sake of convenience?
see, that's the problem in civil society. you think your imperatives rank higher than mine.
in my opinion, the only way to run a republic is to treat governance as if there is no god. that way, no one 's god is favored. i think god wants you to run your religious life that way too(and, generally, you do). god created the physical world to adhere to the rules of physics he created. he, not you, determines when to interrupt this for a miracle. we can't
assume a miraculous world. we must assume the physical world, and it's up to him to break into your regularly scheduled programming for a miracle. if that's how he's ordained us to live as christians, how much more so in a secular govt.
if the potential for life = life, and this theory is to be embedded into statute (which is what i think you'd prefer) then by definition you must treat the 9 puppies inside your dog as if they are all fully formed dogs. murder 9 dogs, go to jail. you're right, you won't go to jail as long as you would if you murdered 9 humans, but go to jail you will, today (no, it's not simply a civil offense) if a video of you were produced showing you traveling around murdering innocent dogs.
you make an assumption when quickening occurs. your assumption is that it's at the point the sperm fertilizes the egg; or, at the point the fertilized egg implants in the uterus. i don't mind you making that assumption. i just would prefer that your view - which may be wiser than mine - is respected; and that my view is likewise respected. that our views are equally respected. that your view of what's important is not higher than mine.
Not sure where your point on religion or god got pulled into this but so be it.
Arguments are made all the time to influence people and therefore change laws and regulations based upon the votes of the society or general acceptance of the community. that is my view of how you should govern. If you appeal to a moral higher authority, I would agree there is no way to tell who's moral higher authority is correct or should be more respected. Hence you can't legislate based upon same.
I would like to see potential life treated with greater respect and protection than is afforded today and would argue for same. I do not think we should sanction the termination of potential life for convenience.
You refer to respecting your views a lot and so far, I don't recall disrespecting it. I can respect a view I disagree with and I understand you can do the same.
i agree with you that the argument for "fetal potential" can be simply bioethical and not religious. however, so far in my life's journey, if found a 100 percent co-incidence between those making the fetal potential argument and christianity, i.e., i have not yet come across an atheist making a fetal potential argument. this tells me that christians may be taking a strategic tack of couching a religious argument in a secular bioethics debate, making this a theocratic effort disguised as something else. maybe you're the first atheist advocating for fetal potential that i've come across. (bravo.)
i agree that the notion of "potential" ought not to be discarded cavalierly. i agree with you - entirely! whether in dogs or humans! - that we should not "sanction the termination of potential life for convenience," if by "sanction" you mean "encourage". where you and i might part ways is that i think we should spend our efforts preventing pregnancies likely bound for termination, rather than making into criminals those who terminate them.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman