They are in their last throes, I understand.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Ken hurry up and order yours.

Quite to the contrary, I think we should have stayed in Afghanistan (I mean really stayed) and finished the job.

But NOOOO, we had more important things to do than stabilize the country and prevent a return to an opium economy that funnels money to extremists (read: terrorists) and warlords.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I agree. This is a repeated mistake. One thing to remember, those people we fight live in a very stagnat societies and are very very very very patint.

I agree with Ken.

We had the Taliban on the ropes and let them escape and they are reforming. If we had stayed and focussed on them and the war on terror, we would have done a lot of good. Instead, we went to Iraq.

This is where the pro-Iraq pundents are wrong in their assessment of the "liberal" views on the war. I was and continue to be a big supporter of our efforts in Afghanistan but feel we are ignoring that to fight the insurgents in Iraq. I am not anti-war, I am anti-the wrong war.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

is there any point in talking about this? if afghanistan was sitting on the third largest oil reserve in the world we'd still be there. simple as that.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

besides this government does not EVER want the war on terror to be over. EVER.

Bush wouldn't have so many excuses for breaking the law if it was.

it's like the 'war on drugs'

has that one ended yet ? no guess not.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

is there any point in talking about this? if afghanistan was sitting on the third largest oil reserve in the world we'd still be there. simple as that.

I agree.

It is late in the week and I needed a laugh so I was hoping to attract some Bush apologist to say we are doing a great job in Afghanistan and how great it is that we are winning 2 wars at the same time.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

I can't believe how negative you are. A news clip comes out saying that oposition forces are on the rise in Afghanistan and you come jumping in that all is lost. You love to say "we should have stayed till the job was done." Who said we ever left? Do you know how many soldiers are there now? Try 19000 conventional plus an unidentified number of special ops. There are an additional 15000 NATO forces soon to be on the ground. Add in the 27000 Afghanistan army and 55000 police members and I think thats a pretty sizeable number. How many soldiers do you think we should have kept "till the job was done?" You sometimes bring up some salient points about Iraq but your comments show your true colors. Of course not all is perfect in Afghanistan but things are getting better. Are you trully that pessimistic?

I guess that response was predictable. Here are the choices for those opposed to some of our foreign policies,

- Why do you hate Freedom?

- Why do you hate America?

- You can't believe anything in the Liberal press.

- It's the same old story rehashed again.

- Let's not live in the past but look ahead.

- Clinton did worse.

- You are so pessimistic.

I was wondering which one would be used this time.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

The fight against the scourge is international. Thank you for making that point.

How did you get on Carville's fax list?

How did you get on Carville's fax list?

LOL

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Come on Casey you know I am right. Prove you aren't pessimistic. Provide your strategic vision for Afghanistan. I acknowledged your points on Iraq. Humor me and tell me how badly we are failing in Afghanistan.

You forgot

"why do you want to surrender to the terrorists?"

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Provide your strategic vision for Afghanistan. I acknowledged your points on Iraq. Humor me and tell me how badly we are failing in Afghanistan.

I bet you knew I would respond.

I applauded our efforts in Afghanistan and the efforts of many of our allies to join in the fight against the Taliban. I think the world's attention has been taken off Afghanistan and focussed too much on Iraq. I said all along, especially when we initially invaded Iraq that it was going to be a mistake because we did not find OBL. That fact made him a hero in the Muslim world because it played like "they could not find OBL so they decide to invade a defenseless country (Iraq had no airforce and was a sitting duck for our bombers)."

Regardless of how we feel about the war, that sentiment played loudly in the Muslim world and galvanized support for OBL.

I also have an acquaintance in Afghanistan working for a relief organization and he told me about the Taliban prior to 9/11 and the impact that our initial invasion had. He also feared that we were leaving them too vulnerable by focussing on Kabul and not on the countryside where the Taliban were able to hide and reorganize. Our shifting focus once the Taliban were toppled gave them an opening to regroup. If we had put our full force there, we would have maintained world support and ensured that the opium trade would be destroyed. Instead, the Taliban have been able to regroup with more sophisticated weapons due largely to the anti-American feelings due to our involvement in Iraq.

I'm sure you'll say this is just pessimism but it has been over 3 years now and when signs are evident that the Taliban is gaining strength, the warlords are still running free outside of the large cities and the opium trade is also reappearing, it is not the most optimistic picture.

I could pretend it is and say we are doing great but I'm saving that for Iraq:)

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

I acknowledged your points on Iraq.

Oops, I almost forgot.

Thank you.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

I can't believe that I am going to get myself involved in this, but here goes. Isn't the UN actually the entity that is overseeing the mission in Afghanistan? If that is true the we didn't "leave" Afghanistan because we had other things to do (Iraq). It would seem that we still have the troops in Afghanistan that the UN feels they need.

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

For a country 2.5 times the size of Texas? Compare that 19,000 to the ~150,000 in Iraq, and wonder what those extra forces might have been able to accomplish outside of Kabul, which appears to be about the only place where "freedom reigns" in Afghanistan.

Nobody (except you) has said "all is lost". What Casey and others are wondering is if we are winning, then why do things appear to be getting worse (opium production at an all-time high, an apparently resurgent Taliban, and the onset of suicide bombings)?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Isn't the UN actually the entity that is overseeing the mission in Afghanistan?

I stand to be corrected but I believe that NATO has the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) with about 4,600 troops contributed by about 29 different countries. It was created under a UN Chapter authorization but it is not a UN commanded or UN funded operation.

The U.S has refused to participate in "peace-keeping" missions because the Bush administration feels it undermines the military options, which I agree with.

The problem is that the U.S Army Center of Military History prepared a report where they calculated that 300,000 troops would be needed for a peacekeeping force in Afghanistan if they were to carry out the full range tasks required. As can be seen, the force is a tad short of that.

My point is that if we had moved the 160,000 odd troops currently in Iraq, to Afghanistan, we could have ensured that we actually secured the country. What we have done is left a minimal force to patrol the cities and opened ourselves up to a resurgent Taliban in areas we are woefully undermanned.

It appears to be a classic blunder of trying to fight 2 wars at the same time, without completing the mission. The mission was to topple the Taliban (half done) and find OBL (not done).

As a side note, I find it somewhat odd that we can look to the UN to help in Afghanistan when we ignored them in Iraq.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

As a side note, I find it somewhat odd that we can look to the UN to help in Afghanistan when we ignored them in Iraq.



Wrong again. They ignored us.

It appears to be a classic blunder of trying to fight 2 wars at the same time,



Too bad you don't know what you are talking about. It has been, and continues to be, the Army's mission to be able to fight two concurrent conflicts.