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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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MRid wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
No ninety year old ever looked back on his life and reminisced about the times he spent riding on a trainer.

If that's all cycling is to you, sitting in a room and staring at power and heart rate numbers, then you probably ought to find a different sport.

And no ninety year old had the technology we have now. For some of us, riding indoors is part of community. We have friends and belong to groups/teams. We ride and race with the same people. We chat with them, we get to know them. It’s not a miserable experience at all, but instead one some of us look forward to.
Need to find words other than ride, riding, and racing. You're doing none of those indoors. You're working your ass off for sure and there is a time and place and benefit for indoor training. But you aren't riding your bike. I know that's pedantic but it's an important distinction, since a significant percentage of triathletes seem to have difficulty when it comes to actually riding.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
One of the reasons I want to go and ride in the Alps next year is that I won't have any texting drivers there. i don't think it is possible to text and drive on those technical climbs without putting the car into the side of a mountain or into a ravine.


You know that is one of the reasons I ride the rural roads I do. None are straight line of sight, all are windy, and most are up and down.....the issue here is that drivers do take unnecessary risks to make the pass (e.g. cresting a hill, blind turn, etc). I figure this is probably the case in the Alps as well. While distracted drivers are a thing it's still the car and the driver's choices that will kill you here.

Riding outside is a blessing: the landscapes, the serenity, the feel of the air rushing past on a descent, none of which I get on the trainer nor on a bike path (which around here is just as deadly). However, fear is a real thing for people and no matter how irrational one's fears are they are hard to impossible to overcome. It saddens me that so many will not venture out and enjoy riding outside due to past instances or even the thought of something occurring.

I've been blessed to have never been hit by a car, but I feel my time is coming. I've crashed exactly once training and it might as well been a vehicle strike as it was on a narrow gravel descent where an oncoming vehicle blocked my line. I took my eye off of my line to see where I needed to go and in that instance my front tire found a nice hole and washed out my front end. I don't recommend laying your bike down at 35mph on gravel, it's a bit messy. Took some time to get my confidence back when descending, but it came and I certainly was back on the bike as soon as I was able. I've also crashed too many times to remember while racing crits and road races and never hesitated to remount and join back into the fray, whether immediately or the next race once I was able. My injuries have all been pretty minor and maybe I would have a different perspective if they have/had been major, but they have impacted my ability to earn (I am a blue collar type of guy), so, there is that.

I'm not sharing to belittle others, their fears, or their irrational behavior, because I understand it. I am merely sharing to let them know if I can get past it then they can too. I'm no superhuman and have lots of those same irrational fears that I overcome (sharks in the ocean anyone?). I believe the bike is/was meant to be best enjoyed outdoors, hopefully those of you that are currently unwilling will someday find yourself back out on the open road.

Full disclosure: I am Married, a Business owner (others outside of my family rely on me), and the father of three kids. I've been riding since the late 90s.

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Dec 9, 18 6:04
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Riding outside is a blessing: the landscapes, the serenity, the feel of the air rushing past on a descent, none of which I get on the trainer nor on a bike path. ...... It saddens me that so many will not venture out and enjoy riding outside due to past instances or even the thought of something occurring.

That about sums it up for me as well.

Some of my biggest gains I make indoors, but if I didn't have brutal climbs and amazing winding, terrifying, beautiful descents nearby to remind me of the pure joy cycling is, I'd have quit long ago.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
No ninety year old ever looked back on his life and reminisced about the times he spent riding on a trainer.

If that's all cycling is to you, sitting in a room and staring at power and heart rate numbers, then you probably ought to find a different sport.

This is not always the case - I've had a couple of excellent fun sessions Zwift racing this weekend. I've also had a couple of very enjoyable hours on Sufferfest and TrainerRoad this week. I'm settled into winter mode now and glad that i don't have to make the decision to go outside or not.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
No ninety year old ever looked back on his life and reminisced about the times he spent riding on a trainer.

If that's all cycling is to you, sitting in a room and staring at power and heart rate numbers, then you probably ought to find a different sport.

the two biggest things in cycling right now, in modern cycling culture, at the cash register (the cash register of enterprising entrepreneurs), are gravel and stationary. road bike racing in america is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. there's a common thread running thru these 2 markets: both eschew pavement.

in my 32 years in this industry i've been in the front most of the time, pulling people forward to where i thought they should be. but, in every case, it's where they were going to end up anyway. i never changed anyone's direction. this is the direction cycling is going. i agree with you that cycling isn't optimized if stationary is its only expression. but i doubt if anyone here treats stationary as "all cycling is" to them.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [FaKaspar] [ In reply to ]
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Several years ago, before smart phones were ubiquitous, I took a break from cycling for various reasons. When I came back to cycling after cell phones were ubiquitous I quickly realized that riding a bike among effectively drunk people is asking for trouble. 100% of training indoors and race only on closed courses.

Interval Design Studio
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
No ninety year old ever looked back on his life and reminisced about the times he spent riding on a trainer.

If that's all cycling is to you, sitting in a room and staring at power and heart rate numbers, then you probably ought to find a different sport.

the two biggest things in cycling right now, in modern cycling culture, at the cash register (the cash register of enterprising entrepreneurs), are gravel and stationary. road bike racing in america is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. there's a common thread running thru these 2 markets: both eschew pavement.

in my 32 years in this industry i've been in the front most of the time, pulling people forward to where i thought they should be. but, in every case, it's where they were going to end up anyway. i never changed anyone's direction. this is the direction cycling is going. i agree with you that cycling isn't optimized if stationary is its only expression. but i doubt if anyone here treats stationary as "all cycling is" to them.

I don't know that standalone road bike racing was ever truly alive in the US.

That said, I think on road cycling for pleasure wwill never go away. If it ever does go indoors entirely, or off road entirely, that'll be a sad day.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
No ninety year old ever looked back on his life and reminisced about the times he spent riding on a trainer.

If that's all cycling is to you, sitting in a room and staring at power and heart rate numbers, then you probably ought to find a different sport.


the two biggest things in cycling right now, in modern cycling culture, at the cash register (the cash register of enterprising entrepreneurs), are gravel and stationary. road bike racing in america is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. there's a common thread running thru these 2 markets: both eschew pavement.

in my 32 years in this industry i've been in the front most of the time, pulling people forward to where i thought they should be. but, in every case, it's where they were going to end up anyway. i never changed anyone's direction. this is the direction cycling is going. i agree with you that cycling isn't optimized if stationary is its only expression. but i doubt if anyone here treats stationary as "all cycling is" to them.


I don't know that standalone road bike racing was ever truly alive in the US.

That said, I think on road cycling for pleasure wwill never go away. If it ever does go indoors entirely, or off road entirely, that'll be a sad day.

i ride on the road all the time. but then the first thing i've done, for decades now, when i choose a place to look for a house in which to live, is get out the maps and strategize around my outdoor hobbies. not everyone has the freedom or capacity or desire to choose in that fashion.

i ride on the road partly because i have pretty good roads to ride on, and partly because, via my gravel bike, i can piece routes together that include the parts of the pavement that make sense to me, avoiding parts that don't.

that said, my comment about road RACING was more related to the viability or the mechanics of that sport. if a road race attracted 250 participants, and 75 of them are now racing 1,200-person gravel races, can that (now) 175-person road race survive?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the two biggest things in cycling right now, in modern cycling culture, at the cash register (the cash register of enterprising entrepreneurs), are gravel and stationary. road bike racing in america is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. there's a common thread running thru these 2 markets: both eschew pavement.

Can I extrapolate from this that you think road triathlon in america is dying?
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [FaKaspar] [ In reply to ]
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I would recommend getting a, or doing...

Mountain Bike
Fat Bike
Gravel Bike
Cyclocross

Bike riding does not need to occur on roads. In fact, you can never ride on a road again and still be challenged every day, have hard rides, never ride the same route, and have one hell of a time.

I haven't ridden on a paved road in over a year. I no loner fear getting hit, I no longer cringe every time I hear a big truck or semi. Best part is that I have been challenged more in the new environments I have ridden and raced that I was in on the road.

I got into cyclocross which feeds my competitive drive. I fat bike for long leisurely fun adventure rides and next year I plan to get into some gravel riding and potentially racing.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
Slowman wrote:

the two biggest things in cycling right now, in modern cycling culture, at the cash register (the cash register of enterprising entrepreneurs), are gravel and stationary. road bike racing in america is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. there's a common thread running thru these 2 markets: both eschew pavement.


Can I extrapolate from this that you think road triathlon in america is dying?

i don't think so. i think road triathlon is fine.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Where am I going to ride my gravel bike? I've thought about getting one instead of a straight roadie. we have some canals here and there...but nothing long enough to where I'd justify it over a road bike to be honest. Now if I lived in Virginia that's not a discussion, I'd get the gravel bike because they have those trails all over even in the urban system.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Where am I going to ride my gravel bike? I've thought about getting one instead of a straight roadie. we have some canals here and there...but nothing long enough to where I'd justify it over a road bike to be honest. Now if I lived in Virginia that's not a discussion, I'd get the gravel bike because they have those trails all over even in the urban system.

i can't answer that question for you, because i don't know where you live.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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FONIX!

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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well, if i were you, i'd see what damage i could do in south mountain park. i'd start with that. because that's both road and offroad, which is what gravel is made for.

then, on the weekends, tonto, apache-sitgreaves, and coconino forests, which all start about an hour from you, i'm trying to find where NOT to ride your gravel bike. i'd head up thru payson and ride the mogollon rim area, and i'd take some zane grey to read at night, in between rides.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
One of the reasons I want to go and ride in the Alps next year is that I won't have any texting drivers there. i don't think it is possible to text and drive on those technical climbs without putting the car into the side of a mountain or into a ravine.


You know that is one of the reasons I ride the rural roads I do. None are straight line of sight, all are windy, and most are up and down.....the issue here is that drivers do take unnecessary risks to make the pass (e.g. cresting a hill, blind turn, etc). I figure this is probably the case in the Alps as well. While distracted drivers are a thing it's still the car and the driver's choices that will kill you here.

Riding outside is a blessing: the landscapes, the serenity, the feel of the air rushing past on a descent, none of which I get on the trainer nor on a bike path (which around here is just as deadly). However, fear is a real thing for people and no matter how irrational one's fears are they are hard to impossible to overcome. It saddens me that so many will not venture out and enjoy riding outside due to past instances or even the thought of something occurring.

I've been blessed to have never been hit by a car, but I feel my time is coming. I've crashed exactly once training and it might as well been a vehicle strike as it was on a narrow gravel descent where an oncoming vehicle blocked my line. I took my eye off of my line to see where I needed to go and in that instance my front tire found a nice hole and washed out my front end. I don't recommend laying your bike down at 35mph on gravel, it's a bit messy. Took some time to get my confidence back when descending, but it came and I certainly was back on the bike as soon as I was able. I've also crashed too many times to remember while racing crits and road races and never hesitated to remount and join back into the fray, whether immediately or the next race once I was able. My injuries have all been pretty minor and maybe I would have a different perspective if they have/had been major, but they have impacted my ability to earn (I am a blue collar type of guy), so, there is that.

I'm not sharing to belittle others, their fears, or their irrational behavior, because I understand it. I am merely sharing to let them know if I can get past it then they can too. I'm no superhuman and have lots of those same irrational fears that I overcome (sharks in the ocean anyone?). I believe the bike is/was meant to be best enjoyed outdoors, hopefully those of you that are currently unwilling will someday find yourself back out on the open road.

Full disclosure: I am Married, a Business owner (others outside of my family rely on me), and the father of three kids. I've been riding since the late 90s.

While fear is real its as irrational as the fear of flying. And this is coming from someone who just got run over by a bus this year. It makes no sense to be afraid of something for which the odds are low.

Every day I walk out the front door, not for an instant worried that I will die of a heart attack or cancer, but it is 50% probably that myself, and the rest of my family will die from those two killers. But we don't worry about it. We just ignore the high probability of those two like they are benign when they are really much more likely than a random school bus running over a cyclist. But I get the fear, I truly do get it, but it does not make it rational.

We all have the option of letting math and logic decide what risks we want to take or just let irrational fear drive how we live. It's the same reason people are scared to go to Israel (because they think there are suicide bombers around every corner, when in reality the place is more like California minus the fires).

Most people are probably going to die from the sugar and sat fats they put in their mouth long before some cycling related accident takes them out. But now one is doing the math when they take in that heart attack in the package protein bar that they think is so healthy. Do we see the irony in this? Because in an instant that protein bar is not going to cause a heart attack nor cancer, but in an instant with very tiny odds, we may fall into traffic just like oru airplane MAY blow up in the sky. But many bad nutritional decisions later, the person is dying from all that adding up, but the sequence of bike miles outdoors does not change the odds of the next accident (one's chances of an accident don't go up the more we ride....the chances are exactly the same on every ride (n occurrences per million miles whatever n is where you live...you could be on your 1st or millionth mile and the odds are exactly the same for every mile or minute out there....they don't go up the longer you ride....but they do entirely go away if you do ride indoors, but we're talking about ridiculously low odds).

Because of the internet, we're just hyper aware of the cumulation of bike accidents around the world, just like we're cumulatively freaked about to let our kids play in the park because now we think because some weirdo who did something to a kid is Yellowstone Wyoming might be around the corner in our neighbourhood.

Some guy reads that i got run over by a bus and thinks that he's going to have the exact same accident at his place 7000 miles away. Back in the day, we would not know that a random guy got run over by a bus. Only a few of his close riding buddies and family would know and we'd just carry on with life oblivious of the risks and enjoy or rides.

I'll concede that there is more distracted driving with phones and assorted electronics, but in your riding group (directly locally, not someone you heard about over the internet), how many people do you know who got mowed down by a driver. I actually don't know any and we live in a very rider dense city. We do have a lot of bike paths and bike lanes or north of town technical hilly riding where a driver would have a tough time staying on the road fiddling with a phone.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
well, if i were you, i'd see what damage i could do in south mountain park. i'd start with that. because that's both road and offroad, which is what gravel is made for.

then, on the weekends, tonto, apache-sitgreaves, and coconino forests, which all start about an hour from you, i'm trying to find where NOT to ride your gravel bike. i'd head up thru payson and ride the mogollon rim area, and i'd take some zane grey to read at night, in between rides.


Dan, I am totally out of the loop on gravel riding but is this just the second coming of mountain biking. Remember when everyone was going to quite road riding and do mountain biking in the early 90's but then we found out that you can't just go out your front door and mountain bike. You needed to drive (or ride on the road) to the mountain biking location, making it kind of inconvenient if you had to do it around work and families. Eventually a lot of poeple ditched their mountain bikes and just ended up riding on the road. Probably Lance and US Postal helped kill mountain biking and pulling all kinds of people over to the road, but the fact remains, road biking is like running. You can do it whenever you want. You don't need a facility and its on your own terms. Road biking has the additional benefit over running that you can do it with a trashed body. The upside of running is you don't need gear but you need a reasonbly functional body. Road biking you still need gear. Swimming you don't need gear, but you have to work around stupid pool hours and you need to be technically skilled. Road cycling, you don't need any real skill and you can do it whenever you want. So I don't see it totally dying. I can see the benefit of indoor pedaling exercise (its not really riding unless you are on rollers).

I don't see gravel being very accessible. You generally can't do it out the front door. It might end up being a slightly larger niche than mountain biking. At least you don't have all that trail access headache!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 9, 18 20:54
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
well, if i were you, i'd see what damage i could do in south mountain park. i'd start with that. because that's both road and offroad, which is what gravel is made for.

then, on the weekends, tonto, apache-sitgreaves, and coconino forests, which all start about an hour from you, i'm trying to find where NOT to ride your gravel bike. i'd head up thru payson and ride the mogollon rim area, and i'd take some zane grey to read at night, in between rides.



Zane Grey, oh man I haven't read some of his in awhile. Smart moves on the stuff up north though, something to think about. Probably would allow for some bonding with my BIL since he likes off road cycling.

South Mountain is one of the most dangerous places to ride if you're a cyclist here when it comes to the road. They closed the road on Sundays specifically to allow cycling only, it's called Silent Sunday in honor of Rob Dollar who was murdered by a 19 yr old who was drunk and high at 9 am in the morning. Probably do trails at Usery then.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
... but the fact remains, road biking is like running. You can do it whenever you want. You don't need a facility and its on your own terms. Road biking has the additional benefit over running that you can do it with a trashed body. The upside of running is you don't need gear but you need a reasonbly functional body. Road biking you still need gear. Swimming you don't need gear, but you have to work around stupid pool hours and you need to be technically skilled. Road cycling, you don't need any real skill and you can do it whenever you want. So I don't see it totally dying. I can see the benefit of indoor pedaling exercise (its not really riding unless you are on rollers).

I don't see gravel being very accessible. You generally can't do it out the front door. It might end up being a slightly larger niche than mountain biking. At least you don't have all that trail access headache!
There's a lot of truth to your road comments. But I think gravel makes riding even more readily accessible. I can leave my house with my gravel bike and ride any road I want - pavement, stone, gravel, dirt, and the corn/farm field access road shortcuts. But I agree with your main point, my MTB friends might go to the trails just 1x on the weekend and the rest is spent on road because they don't have the time after work to load everything up, drive to trails, and still get back to family before kids go to bed. Road cycling isn't going anywhere. Road racing? Yeah - on life support, and I find that very sad.
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Re: Somehow scared of riding outside [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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http://azgravelrides.com/local-gravel-rides/
https://www.traillink.com/...southern-canal-path/
https://dirtyfreehub.com/adventure/arizona/

Join the 'Riding AZ Gravel' facebook group; they have a Files page with a bunch of routes saved as .gpx files.

McDowell Mountain Cycles in Fountain Hills puts on a group ride every Sunday...a mix of road, gravel and [mostly] mild MTB.
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