You might find this interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...rearm_use_by_country

Again lazy. The fact you do not recognize it is relevant just proves you are trolling. Why do I need to do your research when you are throwing out a number without analyzing the data. Here I’ll start for you. It’s estimated 10% of that number is suicide by cop. So why don’t you find out what the rest of that number encompasses police being shot at, armed robberies and so on. Then maybe we can discuss how US police are going around haphazardly killing it’s citizens in an educated manor.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

If I'm wrong, do please explain where. I've said I prefer to deal in verifiable facts. So far, I'm the only poster in this thread showing any interest in that.


That sounds entirely plausible. Nobody with any sense thinks that US cops are just plain bad, even if they are approximately 50 times as likely (relative to population) to shoot a civilian as German cops. Something else has to be going on. A large factor must be that US cops have a far greater, and well founded, fear that anyone they interact with might be armed and dangerous.

Every time a video emerges of a US cop shooting an unarmed civilian; sitting in his car, approaching a police car, standing with his arms raised, sitting in a gutter, whatever, the defense is pretty much the same. In the US, cops are entirely reasonable if they assume the worst, and shoot first. In other countries, not so much (e.g. in Germany, about 2% as much). In the video I posted above, despite the extreme provocation presented, the cops were able to proceed from the reasonable assumption that they were not about to be shot, and did not need to use deadly force. A better outcome.

You're the one being lazy. It is common in many European countries to have zero police shootings in a year. The total for, say, all of the EU nations, with a combined population greater than the USA, has never come close to 100. For the USA it is more than 1000. I'm sure some are armed robberies, some are suicidal mania, some are police returning fire. What point are you trying to make about why the rate in the USA is so incredibly high? What do you think makes you guys so special?

Every time a cop fires his weapon, the event is studied to death. Most of the major media doesn't seem to like cops very much, so the press is perfectly happy to convict them before the facts emerge. Wrongful shootings do occur, sure. Humans are involved so there's screwups. But you paint a scenario of trigger happy cops shooting folks that are pretty clearly no threat to them. You do American cops a huge disservice. I understand that the media presents a different picture, but the folks here in the US with open minds know the error you are making because they, unlike you, are here. And based on that false media portrayal, you're making really despicable accusations. So you can either buy into the media, who's primary purpose in life is to rile people up with dramatic news stories that will gain their attention, or you can be reasonable about this and consider the American voices here that are painting a different picture.

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Tea works but I’d rather hash it out over some beer , whiskey or wine. But if it has to be tea I’ll bring the finger sandwiches.

I’m not holding out we are special. Different would be more accurate. My point and I realize saying you’re an idiot was over the top so I apologize. But I will stand by saying cops kill 1200
Citizens every year when apparently they don’t have to is idiotic. I was trying to point out throwing this stat out without anything backing up what the cause of that number is on the face of it weak !

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I have actually been at pains to do the exact opposite. I think it is false and asinine to attribute malfeasance to US cops, as opposed to those anywhere else. I have said that it has to be something else (and we have made observations about what that something else is). I have said that your observation of bad cop behaviour in Europe being more prevalent than the US is 'entirely plausible'. I have said that nobody thinks US cops are bad. I have said that I'm not interested in media hysterics, and I'd prefer to stick to verifiable facts. You seem determined to attribute to me statements that are not what I have said, and utterly contradict what I have actually said.

I don't blame cops, I blame the environment in which they are required to work. The entire nation owns that environment. The issue with police working environments is just an example of the paradox around guns that the entire US is living under. Your country has armed itself to the teeth, and has police forces armed like most nations' militaries, in response to a perceived threat. And that threat is the fact that you have armed yourselves to the teeth..... It isn't making you safer, nor less scared. It is resulting in more people shot and killed.

Ah so. I see what you're saying. Might not have been said so well tho. Your early posts certainly read like a criticism of US cops.

You see a nation armed to the teeth. But almost w/o exception that is a nation of honest citizens that are armed to the teeth. The gun controllers would go after that group of citizens and try to constrain them, and therein lies the conflict. Also in this nation is a small fraction of our 300 million that are violent sociopaths that will shoot you as soon as look at you. It's that group our cops always have to watch out for. That next car they pull over could be one of that small fraction of the populace that would make their children father-less in an instant and brag to their friends about it. Until the cop is damned sure that I'm a law abiding citizen, based on my body language and tone of voice, he is going to be exceedingly cautious.

So yes, US cops operate in a very difficult environment. But it's not because our nation is armed to the teeth because that phrase primarily describes the lawful. The problem is the thugs.


Re. "Euro cops". I did not attempt to imply that it was a bad Euro cop that split one's scull with their truncheon. My impression at the time was that if a cop in Europe whacked you in the head, you probably deserved it.

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

413,893 offenses in Australia in 16-17. I couldn't find violent offense or resisting arrest numbers because analysis shows that police shootings are far more likely as you narrow the band to violent offenders, and then again to people who refuse to cooperate with the cops.
http://www.abs.gov.au/...01BD477?Opendocument

Anywhoo, 10,797,088 arrests in the US in 2015.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/node/235

I'm not sure this is apples to apples because one is offenders and the other is arrests, there may be a not-insignificant differentiation there (which, if you think about it an arrest is more likely to result in a violent outcome than an offense that may or may not result in arrest), but I don't have time to look into that. Also, I'm using this WP data of US police fatal police shootings, basically just under 1,000 a year in 2015, 2016 and 2017--so the stats are even padded in your favor here).

So the final numbers (drumroll please....)
6 fatal police shootings among 413,893 offenses is a rate of 1.4496 per 100,000 offenses
1,000 fatal police shootings among 10,797,088 arrests is a rate of 9.2617 per 100,000 arrests

So the US rate is 6.3x as high in the US. Are people in the US more likely to have a gun on their person and engage the police? I think if you were to further break down the numbers to see arrests of armed individuals you'd see an even bigger gap in overall numbers, leading to closer fatality rates.

I'm not arguing for or against guns just presenting some facts. I think the size of this country and the criminality of it is often overlooked in these conversations. 6 vs 1,000 is a HUGE difference, but 1.44 per 100,000 vs 9.26 per 100,000 doesn't seem quite as bad and I think if you further unpack the data it'd be even closer.

I'll also do Germany since that's ocme up in this thread as well.

Germany had 2,360,806 offenses in 2016. 10 deaths in 2015 (couldn't find 2016 numbers). Rate of 0.4235 per 100,000 which is ~21 times less than the US.

So again, by population it's 50x the number in the US. By offenses it's 21 times as much (and maybe not that, because 'offenders' and 'arrests' may not be apples to apples). By violent crimes, who knows? By armed arrests, who knows?

OK one more: Violent crime rates per 100,000 population, 2013
US: 4.5 (murder) + 26.8 (rape) + 113 (robbery) + 241 (aggravated assault) = 385.3 per 100,000 (so ~1,244,904 violent crimes in the US)
Germany: 0.9 (murder) + 9 (rape) +64 (robbery) +88 (aggravated assault) = 161.9 per 100,000 (so ~133,842 violent crimes in Germany)


Us fatal shootings per violent crime would be (1,000 / 1,244,904) = 80.327 per 100,000
German fatal shootings per violent crime would be (10 / 133,842) = 7.471 per 100,000

So now it's 10 times as much by violent crime. As I said with Australia, if you then add in the firearm component I bet the numbers get even closer.