Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present
Quote | Reply
This is especially true when it comes to the FBI or any of the other three-letter federal law enforcement agencies. Martha "Convicted Felon" Stewart found that out. Scooter "Convicted Felon" Libby found that out. George Papadopolous and Mike Flynn -- both yet to be sentenced as felons -- found it found, the hard way.

They all were charged with lying to the feds during an interview, which is a process crime (alleged by a prosecutor, like Robert Mueller, who states that criminal conduct related to the investigation of a crime has occurred, but not the crime itself). Other process crimes include obstruction of justice and perjury before a grand jury (as well as misprision of a felony, which is a common law thing).

It's simple: if law enforcement asks to "interview" you, POLITELY DECLINE, THEN SHUT YOUR F*CKING MOUTH AND GET A F*CKING LAWYER. How hard is that to understand? Don't just willingly throw your civil rights away, folks.

Donald Trump Shouldn’t Talk to the Feds. And Neither Should You. When the feds interview a subject or target, their goal is not fact-finding or “clearing a few things up.” Their goal is the hunt.

NOTE: On the Donny Two Scoops matter, he may just end up having to talk in the end, because there's a strong political undercurrent that runs through the request for an interview. If he declines, he's bound to alienate some of the base voters and independents he'll need in 2020. So he may just risk the hazard inherent in talking to the special counsel, Robert Mueller. Hopefully, if he's smart (something really in question ;-), he'll have his private attorney there, but who knows with that guy?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey look, we totally agree on this!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
Hey look, we totally agree on this!

We probably agree on more things than you know, my friend. Especially when it comes to civil liberties. :-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
(2) Why You Shouldn't Ever Talk To The Police - YouTube

It really gets good around 27 min when a detective brings the point home.
This vid is 45 mins long but is definitely worth watching.

A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
//Hopefully, if he's smart (something really in question ;-), he'll have his private attorney there, but who knows with that guy? //

IF he sits down with Mueller, which I believe he will not do but rather respond in writing to questions, I don’t think having his lawyer present will do him any good. No lawyer could stop him spouting off - and what’s said can’t be unsaid. Mueller and team will walk him to the end of the plank and he’ll jump.

While I don’t buy into the whole ‘Trump is a moron’ mantra, his ego is so easy to play that Mueller and team will box him into a process crime.

Having said that, telling the truth is the absolute defense in this situation. It’s the liars that go down, even on process crimes. Not Trumps strong suit.
Last edited by: JD21: Feb 10, 18 10:01
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
If he declines, he's bound to alienate some of the base voters and independents he'll need in 2020.

No way. I'll accept whatever excuse he offers. Talking to Mueller is just Washington BS. Has no real meaning to anyone. His base cares about his actions not his talk.

Meanwhile, is Trump still president? I thought he was supposed to be gone long ago?

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Quote Reply
Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Do you think Mueller’s strategy re Trump will differ if he thinks he has collusion vs obstruction? I suppose my question is whether the strategy will be different depending what Mueller believes he has?
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [JD21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JD21 wrote:
Do you think Mueller’s strategy re Trump will differ if he thinks he has collusion vs obstruction? I suppose my question is whether the strategy will be different depending what Mueller believes he has?

He may have money laundering. More likely than the other two in my estimation.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No way Trump should talk to them. Even if he means to tell the absolute truth. He just isn't precise enough in his speech.

And no way anyone should talk to the cops without a lawyer. You can be completely innocent and just trying to help, take a lawyer with you. Nobody ever gets grilled for 13 hours straight when there is a lawyer there.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
JD21 wrote:
Do you think Mueller’s strategy re Trump will differ if he thinks he has collusion vs obstruction? I suppose my question is whether the strategy will be different depending what Mueller believes he has?


He may have money laundering. More likely than the other two in my estimation.

That is probably true, more because obstruction is harder to prove as a legal matter (but not as a reason for impeachment, that is different, congress has more than enough based on public information to impeach him). I think money laundering is a much higher probability than collusion with Russia, especially any collusion that Trump himself would be aware of. The fact that major banks stopped lending to him in the 2000s and the Trumps stating in public that they are getting their money from Russia, makes it not exactly an absurd idea he laundered a bunch of money for Russian oligarchs/mob. Also him saying that looking at his finances crosses a line. That is all so very suspicious.

When the Steele dossier came out I was very skeptical of the collusion aspect. Over time I have gone from think there was a 20% chance to probably over 60% chance. Of course we now know for a fact the Trump campaign at the very least tried to collude the Russian government. So now Trumps argument is basically, we tried, but we did not succeed and believe us, even though we lied multiple times up to this point. Which is insane that they can also say this a witch hunt. One of the main reasons that I prevents me from going much higher, is that is campaign was just so dumb that I don't know if they could keep it secret this long.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You mean they aren't your friends who just want to clear things up to get you out of this little jam you might or might not be in?
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
j p o wrote:
No way Trump should talk to them. Even if he means to tell the absolute truth. He just isn't precise enough in his speech.

What if he gets a subpoena, should he still not talk to them?
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
j p o wrote:
No way Trump should talk to them. Even if he means to tell the absolute truth. He just isn't precise enough in his speech.

What if he gets a subpoena, should he still not talk to them?

Correct.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So much for stable genius line
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [JD21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IF he sits down with Mueller, which I believe he will not do but rather respond in writing to questions, I don’t think having his lawyer present will do him any good.

Trump always comes out and says he will do things but really has no intention. He will not sit down with Mueller anymore than he will release the Democratic version of the memo on the Russian investigation.

How people actually believe anything that guy says is baffling to say the least.

Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trump has one thing going for him. There is precedent for Congress to not remove a sitting president for getting caught in a dumb lie. They feds can play that game with the pawns but not the king.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
chaparral wrote:
j p o wrote:
No way Trump should talk to them. Even if he means to tell the absolute truth. He just isn't precise enough in his speech.

What if he gets a subpoena, should he still not talk to them?

Correct.

Take the 5th, as often as necessary. GOP won't impeach and his supporters will see him as a martyr.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
j p o wrote:
veganerd wrote:
chaparral wrote:
j p o wrote:
No way Trump should talk to them. Even if he means to tell the absolute truth. He just isn't precise enough in his speech.


What if he gets a subpoena, should he still not talk to them?


Correct.


Take the 5th, as often as necessary. GOP won't impeach and his supporters will see him as a martyr.

"If you are innocent, why are you taking the 5th amendment?" Donald Trump 9/28/16

That would make a good campaign ad, because that man makes it seem very suspicious to plead the 5th.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As a major crimes detective, I completely agree with you. It absolutely blows my mind when a suspect talks to me, and it happens all the time. A true witness? No reason for a lawyer to be present.

As an aside, I can't stand the "Reid Method" of interrogation. Bunk science, fake news BS.

I follow a science based model developed in the UK and Canada called PEACE ... even an interrogation looks and sounds like two people having a conversation. I typically even refer to "interrogations" as conversation in my reports (unless it turns into a Q&A or actual interrogation, which is rare for me).

*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [just jack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
just jack wrote:
As a major crimes detective, I completely agree with you. It absolutely blows my mind when a suspect talks to me, and it happens all the time. A true witness? No reason for a lawyer to be present.

As an aside, I can't stand the "Reid Method" of interrogation. Bunk science, fake news BS.

I follow a science based model developed in the UK and Canada called PEACE ... even an interrogation looks and sounds like two people having a conversation. I typically even refer to "interrogations" as conversation in my reports (unless it turns into a Q&A or actual interrogation, which is rare for me).

Totally disagree some law enforcement are convict at any cost. A young relative of mine almost got convicted of auto theft. He was a witness at a sales room when two teenagers stole a car. He was there whilst his much older brother test drove a car. He was twelve but they were adamant he was the look out.

They didn’t read him his rights, interrogated him without an adult and “discovered” evidence to implicate him. A police enforcement friend of the family eventually proved he was totally innocent but that was less than 2 weeks before they were due to go to court.

I dread to think how his life could have turned out. The interrogating police office was going to perjure himself to get that conviction.
Quote Reply
Re: I Love Law Enforcement, But Don't Talk to Them Without a Lawyer Present [Chri55] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Chri55 wrote:
(2) Why You Shouldn't Ever Talk To The Police - YouTube

It really gets good around 27 min when a detective brings the point home.
This vid is 45 mins long but is definitely worth watching.

I was going to post the same video. A family friend is a former special agent for the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. He investigates poaching and illegal killings of animals. He has some fascinating stories and he always says if you're talking to him then you're in trouble.
Quote Reply