I have heard that medicine is as much art as science.

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

Get a second opinion

About a year and a half ago I had some swelling in the back of my left knee. Went to see the orthopedic doc. Had an MRI. Conclusion? "You're just going to have to accept that you're getting older." Hmm... At 42?

I figured it out myself -- biking with thick knee warmers were causing the tendons in the back of my knee to become inflamed.

The doc? He's still a bitter old guy who is nursing his knee...

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Frogonawire: Doc, my knee hurts and I had an MRI from another doctor. He said I am just getting old. Someone on an internet forum suggested I get a second opinion.



2nd Doctor: Well, Froggie, you are getting old. Pay the receptionist $150 on your way out.



Chris

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Chris
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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

lol

basically

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I really wasn't trying to be a smartass but I am one so I am sure it came out that way.

The meaning that wasn't spelled out is that if it is getting to the point where I couldn't run due to pain in my knee and a doctor told me to get over it without giving me any other options of at least some idea of why I was having pain I would look to someone else for a better answer.

I am 43 just had knee surgery last week. I did have a problem that was diagnosed so it is a bit different.

I just get cranky about doc's that don't explain what is going on.

I think about Mike Plumb and his issues I am sure he has heard that he is getting older too. Mike is old by the way.

oh, she explained it

beginnings of arthritis, some basic wearing away of the joint, some bone on bone, overuse, nothing really bad, just take it easy when it hurts, take ibuprofen, ice, etc.

I had an x ray from a differnt doc two years ago that showed nothing

"you're getting older."

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I hate getting older.

Maybe Plumb will jump in here. He has had some good luck with treatments.

He is old too.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a smartass either. I just thought that it was funny you didn't specify on what to have a second opinion on, knee or getting old (although it was certainly implied).



I actually agree on looking further into the knee injury. My GF is a Physical Therapist (in training) and I'm sure with the proper rehab, many injuries can be diagnosed and rehabed.



Chris

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Chris
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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

Look at a 20 year old the way they walk and move then look at an 80 year old. There is a continum along that line and you are somewhere along it. We should all hope to grow old, but don't want to admit it while we do so. The other factors include how long you have been doing it. I started running serious in the mid 70s. I bet not 1 in 10 of my running buddies from that time are still running. One of those guys runs 40-60 mile weeks and has done so since the early 70s. (great genes and orthopod gait)

So a runner that started in their 40 may not have the wear on their joints of a person that ran in College but also may not have the bone/joint structure to run healthy for 20 years. Running is pretty hard on the joints, add weight, hard surfaces, and a type A drive and it may not be a 20 year career sport.
Not to be a wise ass but the doc was probably right. The other thing to think about is what your lifestyle plan will look like at 70. We are the first generation that have exercised from cradle to grave so I don't think we have all the stats to determine if that is such a good thing yet. Have you seen how bad some of the 60 year old pro football and basketball players walk around? I hope at 80 I am doing better than that. Who wants to be on pain meds when you get old for worn out joints.

Eight years ago, I broke both Tibia and Fibula (in three places) along with major damage to the tendons. Upon listening to my goal of returning to running fitness, the first doctor explained that his best, long term goal was to have me "walk without a limp." Immediately, I found a new doctor versed in sports medicine. Two years after that - fitted with a lovely titanium plate and six screws - I ran PRs in my 10K, half-Mary and marathon distances.

If you have any doubts about the diagnosis, get a second opinion.

Hell, I AM old (49). Have no ACL in my left knee. Ortho can't believe I can do IM's, let alone run, with the thing. I've had the medial meniscus trimmed (4 years ago), and have since had no further complications. I do strength train religiously, and do specific knee-strengthening stuff just to keep everything around the knee strong.

And I'm also finding that getting my core really strong and returning to my normal levels of back and hamstring flexibility is helping everything withstand some fairly heavy training loads.

As has already been said, without knowing exactly what's going on there (which requires MRI, and sometimes even that isn't sufficient and you have to go in), you may end up causing additional damage without even knowing it!

And I always throw this one in--if you have any excess weight to lose, get rid of it. It's the worst thing for your knees to be running or biking with excess weight.

It boils down to how badly do you want to continue your sports. If you want it badly enough, then you will find someone who will 1) tell you what is actually wrong and 2) how to at least prevent it from worsening (if possible) or how to fix it.

OK, you're ugly, too. ta dum! :)

Glucosamine?

fefe's advice/story is pretty good deal "other" stuff (other than SBR) can do a world of good in your overall health... no one wants to get old/etc. but it's not the getting old, it's all the "stuff" that goes with it. I've been having this problem with my calf (mostly irrrelevant, but go with me here) and have been trying damn near everything to "fix" it. Super open to just about anything, including cut me open and fix it.

So my wife is a PT, pretty into holistic medicine kinda' stuff and has been telling me forever that my hips/pelvis are a wreck. Being as she's my wife, I give her incredibly limited creedence and go about my business. Now I've seen everyone and their brother and quite a few of them are coming back to my LEFT calf problem lies squarely in my RIGHT hip area. So skipping all the details about me, I got a really good explanation from this deep tissue massage guy ("really good" in that it makes me think). His analogy: the body is like an orchestra composed of a whole bunch of instruments and when one instrument is out of whack the whole damn orchestra can sound like shit. sometimes it's a quiet little instrument that can be overpowered by the loud instruments until it comes time for it to solo, then all hell breaks loose. get the analogy? Little tiny movements in the kinetic chain that we take for granted can get screwed up and we can muscle right on through them for a pretty damn long time, but sometime or another the whole system bears the brunt of that "rusty link".

Again, lots of fixes, go to a chiro (and my wife would kill me for that) and get that "instrument" "tuned" or find out what is causing that instrument to be out of tune and teach the musician how to play all over again (thereby preventing further complications...hopefully).

Damn, that's a lot of analogies, but it all comes down to having this kinesthtic awareness of the "little things" in your body. Flexibility and mobility don't have to decline and cause all these problems. They do because we have all these big muscles that take over and allow the little tiny movements to "disappear". Look at a 60-year-old yogi and a 60-year old football player..can you even compare them?!?

So does any of that apply to your knee? Hell if I know, but maybe. I know I've been working on my hips/Glutes for about 2 weeks now and finally ran longer than 7 minutes and 51 seconds for the first time in 7 weeks this week.

He he.....see you are right.

I recently made a commitment to restoring my hamstring/calf/low-back flexibility, and in under 2 weeks I am seeing/feeling wonderful things. I can almost "self-adjust" my spine again, I can almost get my palms on the floor for straight-leg toe touches, there is no tension in my calves when I run, and my piriformis muscles seem to have settled down. This despite the fact that my training is pretty hefty, heavy on the running (about 15 hours per week right now).

Now, I am naturally more flexible than the average, but my point is, I can get to almost my pre-triathlon/adult slackitude level of flexibility, and until I'm back, I know there are going to be lots of things that are affected.

Each of my knees have taken turns shouting at me. My hamstrings protest every now and then. But none of this can be bad, and I'm very aware now of that 'kinetic chain' whereby this lack of flexibility has had an impact on the entire body.

I've taken a few spills on my bike, too, and while it felt like I experienced just a "slight" pull on one side of my back, my my how I've overcompensated for that.

This knowledge is a result of my own experimentation and fact assembly.

The reality is you DO need to look at/fix as much of the entire system as possible, while focusing on the acute issue.

Don't ever give up hope, but ALWAYS use these issues as opportunities to ask yourself what can I be doing BETTER to take care of myself?

Yeah, it's sort of a pain in the butt to commit to 2 hrs. stretching per week, like I NEED more workouts, but seeing the impact in just 2 weeks, I'm hooked. And I'm not decreasing the strength or anything either.

If you want to keep doing this stuff as you get older, IMHO it's even MORE imperative to take even better care of yourself than you did even 5 years ago.