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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
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Marlin wrote:
Please tell me where you live that you can get 10 races of any quality for $600 so I can live there, too.

Massachusetts. From early April until mid-September of this year, I did four duathlons, six sprint tris, two Olympic tris and an Olympic distance aquathlon.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel).... but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

I wouldn't argue if you were to call the $250 required kit a bit of a gouge. A $300 entry fee for a "World Championship" event doesn't seem out of line to me, given that a local park-district sprint tri with a zig-zag pool swim cost +/- $65 around here, but I'll grant that to you for the sake of argument. So you're contention is these two items are overpriced by about $350 total, and that amount represents a financial barrier to US athletes who would otherwise participate.

Seriously, how small is the constituency of competitors who managed to qualify, and can afford the time off and overseas travel expenses (with bicycle in tow), but can't find that last $350 to pay "excess costs" of the kit and registration? I'd say it's so close to "zero" we can call it that.

I wouldn't blink an eye at spending $300 to compete in a sanctioned World Championship event. And I'd love to have the privilege of being able to overpay for a "Team USA" kit. My wife would probably get tired of me wearing it to bed. "Come here, baby, I know you want to snuggle with Mr. 'Team USA!'"

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
synthetic wrote:
i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel).... but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.


I wouldn't argue if you were to call the $250 required kit a bit of a gouge. A $300 entry fee for a "World Championship" event doesn't seem out of line to me, given that a local park-district sprint tri with a zig-zag pool swim cost +/- $65 around here, but I'll grant that to you for the sake of argument. So you're contention is these two items are overpriced by about $350 total, and that amount represents a financial barrier to US athletes who would otherwise participate.

Seriously, how small is the constituency of competitors who managed to qualify, and can afford the time off and overseas travel expenses (with bicycle in tow), but can't find that last $350 to pay "excess costs" of the kit and registration? I'd say it's so close to "zero" we can call it that.

I wouldn't blink an eye at spending $300 to compete in a sanctioned World Championship event. And I'd love to have the privilege of being able to overpay for a "Team USA" kit. My wife would probably get tired of me wearing it to bed. "Come here, baby, I know you want to snuggle with Mr. 'Team USA!'"

Even more fun with Mrs. TeamUSA. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [AKCrafty] [ In reply to ]
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The problem here is that the $250 is in addition to the kit(s) people already own. Besides, I really don't want to be racing my local tri in my Team USA kit. One, because I may have another club/sponsor suit to wear, and two, because it can come across a little pretentious (to some).


I wear mine at local races sometimes and I usually see several other people wearing them. I suppose they can come off as pretentious, but I think a lot of people don't know what they are. The last race I wore it at I heard a few people yell, "Go Captain America!"
Last edited by: Supersquid: Oct 15, 16 8:20
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]
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Supersquid wrote:
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The problem here is that the $250 is in addition to the kit(s) people already own. Besides, I really don't want to be racing my local tri in my Team USA kit. One, because I may have another club/sponsor suit to wear, and two, because it can come across a little pretentious (to some).


I wear mine at local races sometimes and I usually see several other people wearing them. I suppose they can come off as pretentious, but I think a lot of people don't know what they are. The last race I wore it at I heard a few people yell, "Go Captain America!"

I could care less what folks think. I worked heard to earn my outfit, let alone pay for the darn thing, so I am going to wear it. It seems to give others motivation
to kick my butt, and it gives me motivation to try and kick butt.

No different than the folks I see wearing their WTC stuff, or Boston stuff. Be proud of what one has accomplished. Anyone making comments is just jealous.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
synthetic wrote:
i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel).... but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition... might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs


As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT's job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that's a bonus, but not the intended goal ... as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit...yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor's home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip ... then I think you are flat wrong.


Spot on.

When I took my wife, two kids, and their husbands on TeamUSA to Gold Cost in 2009, it cost me like over 10K, and I had just lost my job. But, the memories we have as
a family being there will last a lifetime!!!

I do not even want to think what it will cost to go to Penticton worlds in 2017. But, the kit cost and registration will be a drop in the bucket compared to lodging, food and travel costs for 10 days. Ouch. Let alone if I also go to Rotterdam.





penticton is not too expensive and dont forget you get a 30 per cent discount due to the exchange rate with canadian dollars.....

Back in the old IMC days prices for everything in Penticton went up 50% in late August, and around 300% for lodging with a 5 day minimum stay (numbers completely pulled from my ass, but I'm sure are in the ballpark). I doubt (hope) there is enough demand to pull that kind of shit again. Cost was the number one reason I never did that race.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Just submitted my stage 2 qualification application. Fingers crossed.
In a weird twist of fate, my husband is also waiting to hear if he's qualified for Worlds -- in sailing. Guess what weekend that falls on next year?? Yep, same as Rotterdam. :) So I'll be going by myself (well, with teammates and tri friends) if I get accepted. Kids will stay with Grandma, and won't have to miss school. At least that'll keep travel costs in check!
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [surroundhound] [ In reply to ]
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surroundhound wrote:
Just submitted my stage 2 qualification application. Fingers crossed.
In a weird twist of fate, my husband is also waiting to hear if he's qualified for Worlds -- in sailing. Guess what weekend that falls on next year?? Yep, same as Rotterdam. :) So I'll be going by myself (well, with teammates and tri friends) if I get accepted. Kids will stay with Grandma, and won't have to miss school. At least that'll keep travel costs in check!

Good luck. Which race?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
rhayden wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
synthetic wrote:
i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel).... but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition... might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs


As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT's job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that's a bonus, but not the intended goal ... as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit...yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor's home address. Flight costs for the athlete



and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip ... then I think you are flat wrong.


Spot on.

When I took my wife, two kids, and their husbands on TeamUSA to Gold Cost in 2009, it cost me like over 10K, and I had just lost my job. But, the memories we have as

a family being there will last a lifetime!!!

I do not even want to think what it will cost to go to Penticton worlds in 2017. But, the kit cost and registration will be a drop in the bucket compared to lodging, food and travel costs for 10 days. Ouch. Let alone if I also go to Rotterdam.





penticton is not too expensive and dont forget you get a 30 per cent discount due to the exchange rate with canadian dollars.....


Back in the old IMC days prices for everything in Penticton went up 50% in late August, and around 300% for lodging with a 5 day minimum stay (numbers completely pulled from my ass, but I'm sure are in the ballpark). I doubt (hope) there is enough demand to pull that kind of shit again. Cost was the number one reason I never did that race.



no doubt there is some creative use of the supply and demand curve. It is my understanding though that several national federations ( USA and Canada included) have block booked many of the hotels. I booked a hotel that has been block booked by Tri Canada. There was a three night minimum stay but the room per night price seemed to fall within normal limits. If you are willing to drive a bit there are many cheaper options within an hour's drive ot the race. Given that there really isnt much to do in penticton though once you are there your costs are limited.
getting to penticton from afar has added costs of car rental etc as there is no taxi or shuttle service from any of the major airports in the vicinity.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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The sprint. Not my ideal race format as I'm not a FOP swimmer, but it sure was fun cycling in a pack at Nationals.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [surroundhound] [ In reply to ]
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surroundhound wrote:
The sprint. Not my ideal race format as I'm not a FOP swimmer, but it sure was fun cycling in a pack at Nationals.

Cool, so you want to go to Rotterdam?

I really am excited to do more Draft legal races, both Duathlon's and Triathlon's. I love this sport because of the friendships. And DL racing just
allows me to work in the race total legally with great tactics to consider before the race.

Good luck getting into Rotterdam

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
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Marlin wrote:
Please tell me where you live that you can get 10 races of any quality for $600 so I can live there, too.

Maybe a better question is where do you live that you don't have reasonable races in that price range?

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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Eastern Canada. Tough to find an oly under $100, sprints are around $80. Higher end events like 5i50 Tremblant and the new ITU race in Montreal can be a lot more. I'm used to paying more for equipment, but it's strange that the exchange rate has an effect on services!

***
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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My oldest child, who happens to be a pretty good athlete, will get the opportunity to earn the family a reason to visit Gold Coast. We earn far less than the quoted USAT demographic, but have always prioritized life experience and travel over possessions. This summer in Omaha he will be a Junior, so Australia would be his Senior year. The cost of the kit and registration seem negligible compared to travel, lodging, and meals. We would have that experience to reflect back on forever when we are empty-nesters.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [bdungan] [ In reply to ]
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bdungan wrote:
My oldest child, who happens to be a pretty good athlete, will get the opportunity to earn the family a reason to visit Gold Coast. We earn far less than the quoted USAT demographic, but have always prioritized life experience and travel over possessions. This summer in Omaha he will be a Junior, so Australia would be his Senior year. The cost of the kit and registration seem negligible compared to travel, lodging, and meals. We would have that experience to reflect back on forever when we are empty-nesters.

Yep, the way to do it. I took my extended family before they had kids to Gold Coast in 2009 and all 6 of us raced the Aquathlon on TeamUSA. They all still have all the
various uniforms and race kits. Even though it was real expensive, and super long plane flight, we had the time of our life and am glad we did it. Now with all
the young grandkids, would be impossible to do. Hope it all works out for you getting there.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
synthetic wrote:
i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel).... but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.


I wouldn't argue if you were to call the $250 required kit a bit of a gouge. A $300 entry fee for a "World Championship" event doesn't seem out of line to me, given that a local park-district sprint tri with a zig-zag pool swim cost +/- $65 around here, but I'll grant that to you for the sake of argument. So you're contention is these two items are overpriced by about $350 total, and that amount represents a financial barrier to US athletes who would otherwise participate.

Seriously, how small is the constituency of competitors who managed to qualify, and can afford the time off and overseas travel expenses (with bicycle in tow), but can't find that last $350 to pay "excess costs" of the kit and registration? I'd say it's so close to "zero" we can call it that.

I wouldn't blink an eye at spending $300 to compete in a sanctioned World Championship event. And I'd love to have the privilege of being able to overpay for a "Team USA" kit. My wife would probably get tired of me wearing it to bed. "Come here, baby, I know you want to snuggle with Mr. 'Team USA!'"

getting into AG worlds for tri is tough.

but for du, aquathlon, etc its easy, just participate in a national championship for it. i went to aquathlon nats and got a spot with a terrible time result for me personally. now flying to canada where the distance is half the race i just did, and 5x the cost just to compete? i know many faster than me working minimum wage jobs who cant participate.

i know many local elite racers, and ones who earned their pro card who simply quit the sport because of the costs. they still do individual legs of the sport though, locally. im seeing many local tri's having difficulty filling the elite waves, even granting some BOP AG'ers front access.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:

getting into AG worlds for tri is tough.

.

Highly dependant on location. It was tough for Australians to qualify for this years worlds, but I had a friend who finished dead last in her AG and qualified for the worlds in Canada. Even competitive age groups there is often a massive roll down.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
synthetic wrote:


getting into AG worlds for tri is tough.

.


Highly dependant on location. It was tough for Australians to qualify for this years worlds, but I had a friend who finished dead last in her AG and qualified for the worlds in Canada. Even competitive age groups there is often a massive roll down.

now that reminds me on a point. host country probably does better, as the cost of their top athletes to attend is cheaper than other countries. mexico did very well this year.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on the size of the host country and the ease of travel... a large country like Canada or the US will obviously have higher numbers for a "home worlds" but my flights for Penticton will cost more than for me to fly to Europe (and the alternative is a 4-5day drive, after which I would suspect my race would be garbage...)..., so it doesn't necessarily change the cost barrier to access...

And while I agree that $250-300 for worlds, compared to $100-150 for the same distance at a local race is a bit steep, the experience is worth it. And whle USAT might have over priced tri suits, for Team Canada, it's mandatory to get a new kit each year (if you do multiple worlds in the year, you don't need to get it twice), because the design changes and they want a consistent look (not just tri suit, but parade kit too... usually around $350/yr... I have several versions, of various quality levels). As for the idea of not wearing it for local races, because you have to wear other kit with local sponsors... you can have logos added to ITU kit (if you follow the placement and sizing rules)... I've done that with my national kit that way I'm not having to order extra kit with sponsor logos on it...
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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As someone who competed for Team USA in Cozumel...I'm going to go ahead and say that the overwhelming heat and humidity was likely the main factor in the "poor" (could debate that separately) US results...
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [Marlin] [ In reply to ]
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I live in Central NY. This season I did six sprint triathlons (including USAT nationals), two 5k's, a 10k, a duathlon and paid membership to the local cycling club (to participate in two TT's) and my total entry fees for this year were $357.

John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:

As to registration and race kit...yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor's home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip ... then I think you are flat wrong.
Agree with you... not a fan of the TYR kit by a long shot to begin with and then to pay $$ for it?

I've seen some discussion points from the USAT that the race fees are almost break even for them... the parade uniform appears to be pretty expensive. There are also some ancillary services provided that I've never used... but they are there. Team doctor, massage therapists, bike mechanics and a few other things.

I'm probably going to race in Rotterdam but as you said it comes down to travel cost in the grand scheme of things... and I'd love a better kit. BTW before Cozumel there were a batch of uniforms that the colors bled, ran, whatever you want to call it. I have mine from previous years but saw some pretty poor looking uniforms at the event.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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Speaking about the cost race participation, does anyone need a place to stay during ITU Worlds 24APR2018-28APR2018 in Spain ? I have a reservation in hotel 'Villa de Marin' located in Marin (approx. 7 mi to Pontevedra) for two people which I am not going to use. If interested, please email to springfieldjames@yahoo.com.
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Re: AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
Marlin wrote:
Please tell me where you live that you can get 10 races of any quality for $600 so I can live there, too.

Maybe a better question is where do you live that you don't have reasonable races in that price range?

SoCal.
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