Honestly, depending on where you are now, I would hit the track. You say you can run all day long just now fast, not sure what you mean by that, but if you can do 90min+ at a decent pace you will be well served by some track work. Make sure it is relevant to you though, unless you are doing sprint tri's you will want to look for longer intervals 1000's, 1200's, mile repeats etc. Doing 200's at a full sprint isn't really what you need at this point.

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Portside Athletics Blog

I disagree somewhat with SwBkRn44 in that I think some form work may be in order if that is indeed limiting your speed. And while that doesn't require short all-out sprints, shorter intervals (200-400m) can help ingrain that form into your running stride.

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I agree that some shorter intervals will definitely help his form. We really need to know his pace here. For a slower runner, you are right, 200-400's will help with form, however 200's aren't going to do much for your overall run split if you are doing races longer then sprints. A workout of longer intervals with some 100 or 200m strides would serve both purposes.

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Portside Athletics Blog

That's what I was thinking. Of course I want to improve my base but I am reasonably fit... I am could run a 1:45 1/2 marathon or 4:00 full marathon right now - but I seem to have only one pace. My eventual goal is a 3:10 marathon and 3:30 run at my next IM.

You sound like me. I recently took 2:30 off my 10K PR by doing two things:
- running more frequently (6 days a week) not longer
- adding strides to my runs.

I did this on the advice of my coach. I would have never done it on my own. I would have likely hit the track, and would have likely got injured along the way.

I was already running on a hilly trails, so I had that aspect covered.

I think you should:
1: think about what your goals are (IM, marathon, OLY, 5k etc.)
2: explain those goals to your coach (I'm guessing you already have)
3: listen to your coach

My 2 cents. Our guts are often wrong in these cases.

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

thanks... actually he was my coach last season and this was more a conversation we had regarding my plans over the off season. I didnt plan on having a coach again until the New Year

I think part of the problem is that my goals are all over the map and probably somewhat conflicting.

I am doing IM Brazil in the spring and need to be preparing for that but I am getting incredibly frustrated with my run so I am ready to take drastic measures.

I am in a similar position. After doing some reading, and asking buddies who just rock out the run I came up with a plan. My background is in swimming. Running is fairly new to me. I am sure what I have outlined below would be cake for some, but it has challenged me and is showing results. What I have done in the past, which hasn't worked for me, is to build a big base of slow miles then build in speed work later in the year. I think this taught my body how to run slow, and I had to re-learn my form late in the season. Too late based upon my results. I am using this template as my base. I try to gradually get quicker on the tempo and track workouts each week, and if I can hold pace and form for the whole week, on the other runs I will start adding miles.

Monday: recovery day 2-3 miles. Work on form, stay in in zone 1

Tuesday: Tempo run 5-7.5 miles. Zone 2, try to get slightly faster each week.

Wednesday: Easy 2 miles, 1 Mile (min hard, min recovery: stay aerobic), easy two miles.

Thursday: Track: 1 mile warm up, .5 mile striders 3 x 1600 at fastest aerobic pace you can hold and be consistent. 2 min cool down between miles. 1 mile cool down.

Friday: 2.5 mile run, Tuesday's tempo pace + 15 seconds per mile. Focus on form

Saturday: long road run, currently at 9 miles. Keep form, upper end of Zone 1

Sunday: 60 min trail run or hill repeats.

Track work can surely help you a lot but it's not essential. If fact, I know this guy that just ran a 2h51 marathon on a Ironman race and didn't step on the track in 2005. Ok maybe he went there to shower.

But as I was saying.. it's not essential. I've done a lot of hilly runs and didn't feel slower (ok, the splits were in fact slower in 2005 compared to my own in 2004 but that's cause I had some injuries)

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Give strides try. They have done wonders for me. They keep me stimulated mentally. They help me open up my stride and develop awareness of my cadence. And they are perfect during the off season.

If you are in a rut (as it appears you are), strides can nudge you out of it.

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run a 1:45 1/2 marathon or 4:00 full marathon right now

For someone who can run all day long, that is more than a 2 min per mile drop off from the time you cross the half until you get to the full. Me thinks you need to sit and chat with you coach about what you want to accomplish and how to go about it.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

good point...

But then when you run a 4:00 marathon, it certainly feels like all day... That's the problem ;-)

Isn't it just over a min/mile difference?

I agree though, it seems like a big drop off between the two.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

is a min/mile a big difference from a 1/2 to a full?

FWIW... I could better both those times if I was training for either race, I was just making a point.

I guess the problem is I feel like going out and running endless 8 minute miles isnt making me faster. Just wondering if the best way to get faster was more miles or track.

no, if you hit the half in 1:45 then run 4:00 for the full, you lose 30 min, which is more than 2 min per mile over the second half of the race. No matter what, that is a huge slow down which suggests a lack of fatigue resistance, endurance and/or bad pacing in the first half of the race. There could be some other issues as well.

If those are current times for a half and a current time for a marathon, even then the drop offs are huge.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I see what desert dude is saying, but I interpreted it as you can run a stand-alone half marathon at 8:00/mile, and a stand-alone full marathon at 9:09/mile.

I'm not that experienced or educated on the subject, but I think that is a pretty big slow down. To me, :30/mile is a big difference in pace. Even at the marathon distance, :10-:20/mile is a lot.

Also, if you're really running all your miles at 8:00/mile, I think you're running your long stuff too fast, or you're not running long enough. Why don't you just go out and buy a running book, like Daniels Running Formulas. If you have a coach, shouldn't he be taking care of this type of stuff for you? Does he really have you running just 8:00 miles all the time?

There's a ton of different systems you need to train to optimize your running ability. Going to the track might help you in one way, but you need to train the other systems too.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

I have not coached beyond myself and my wife, but perhaps you should try running a couple shorter races - 5k, 10k, etc. - as part of your run training. Give yourself a couple races that require a faster pace, give your body a chance to "discover" how fast it can go.

Certainly, strides and track work will give you the opportunity to turn over your legs faster and should be a part of a training regime (at the right time of the season).

But, I believe there is a mental block that many runners hit, because they have never experienced a faster pace in a race situation. They default to their one tried and true canter. And experimenting with going faster in a short race, especially when the goal is finding out how fast one can go without blowing up, is much more feasible than a long distance, due to obvious training and recovery issues.

Like I said, I am not a coach, just have a quite a bit of running experience. I would be curious to hear what the real experts have to say on this.

bpq,

I am not a very fast runner. But I would think that it would greatly depend on what sort of races you were training for. I think that if your focus was on 5k's and 10k's, perhaps you might benefit from the track workouts. On the other hand, if you are looking to excel at the marathon distance I would suspect you should concentrate on the longer runs. All of that said, I think that I would listen to my coach. You pay him/her to give you good advice, right?

Bernie

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