E-stim produces one of three general outcomes -- a) pain reduction, b) tissue therapy and c) muscle rehabilitation or strengthening. The Compex that is available OTC offers a recovery program that is designed to facilitate muscle relaxation and clearing of lactic acid. Long short, the program reduces muscle soreness and stiffness following hard training days or cumulative fatigue. This is likely not going to help your situation much.



While it seems quite likely that electro stim could aide in your recovery, you would need a prescription unit that has the requisite rehab frequencies. A recovery unit (like a Rehabilicare) would aide in the reduction of trauma to muscles or the tendons from violent contraction or excessive forcible stretch but is not available OTC.

Have you been to a PT?

I had an injury that had developed lotsa scar tissue as a result of 1. not being treated properly the 1st time I went for help, and then 2. waiting to get better help.

Then I found a good PT, and he used ULTRASOUND!!! It worked!!! It took couple months, 2x/week - plus some deep massage - but I've done many marathons since!!!

It's worth a try. But get a reccommendation for a PT from somebody you trust.

good luck

"While it seems quite likely that electro stim could aide in your recovery, you would need a prescription unit that has the requisite rehab frequencies."

Actually, rumor has it that the first 5 minute "warm-up" part of each Compex program (strength, endurance, etc.) uses the same frequency as rehab TENS units.

But you didn't hear that from me;)

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

IronDeb, Thanks for the reply. It sounds like I've got a similar issue...not treated, late, etc. and TONS of scar tissue, according to the massage therapist. I haven't been to a PT, and since the chiro has one there, i'm surprised he hasn't suggested that. But the ultrasound worked good for you, eh.....I shuld probably find a source here.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Haim, Thanks. So is that a pretty good "rumor"????? I know Simon supposedly uses one, so thought I might find some actual experience here. I'll have to do a bit more "research". Thanks much.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

The other rumor I've heard is that the European version of the Compex has TENS capability.

I'll confirm that rumor. I've seen a model that is available in Europe, not available in the US, and has TENS.

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"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman

So any idea where I might find such a unit?

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Disclaimer: I am neither a doctor or lawyer.

------- Assuming you live in the US ---------

Go to your doctor, and get a prescription. Then go to your friendly neighborhood Durable Medical Equipment store, and buy one. Your insurance may even cover part of it. As I understand it, these things are FDA regulated medical equipment in the US. If someone sells you one without a prescription, it would be illegal, if I understand these things correctly.

The one I saw was on the hip of a Compex sales guy, and when I asked him about it, he stated something to the effect that "this is a TENS unit. They aren't available in the US." It may have been shifted to the Rehabilicare division (or it may have always been, for that matter), as the whole point of the Compex division is to stay away from FDA regulation, IIRC.

If you need a TENS unit, they are readily available with the assistance of your doctor.

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"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman

I can give you my massage therapist number. she doesnt know much english, but it is so cute when she says, "ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME, NO SHIT"!

Okay, I just re-read our original post, and now I think you are a little confused...or I am. You are looking for deep muscular massage of your calf, not necessarily pain relief, right? You may not need the TENS unit, and the recovery program of the Compex Sport, or some other model, may give you relief.

You can buy this unit through Compex ( they give deals at certain races ), or certain sporting goods stores. They're kind of expensive (but cheaper than new wheels, or whatever else you like to squander your money on), but I find mine very effective at cramp relief and muscle recovery. You might want to call Compex to see if they have some type of Demo or rental program. (866)826-6739

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"You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious."

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." -- Richard Feynman

I have said unit. The Sport Mi500, and yes, it is only available in Europe. Mail order maybe? Anyway, there is a seperate setting for cramp prevention, and it really works. I got mine through a friend who was visiting.

electrical stimulation is not likely to help in your situation. The clinical efficacy of electrical stimulation is greatly overstated, usually by people who are making money selling said units or providing said treatment. Save your money, get yourself to a physical therapist or quality sports medicine physician. The italics is because there are some out there who call themselves sports medicine docs, but they really don't know squat, same applies to some PT's as well.

The Compex units are profoundly expensive and again, not going to provide the results you are looking for. I know a lot of people on this forum LOVE their compex units and some will even throw out some "research" to support their views, but bottom line is...e-stim is just not that effective.

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Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Sounds like you've spent time in the P.I.

"You numbah ten, G.I.!"

I've used ART and deep tissue massage to break up calcium deposits and collagen build up after an injury. The good thing about ART is if works for you, you know right away. Within a few treatments if you don't see improvement I would move on to another type of treatment. Deep tissue is deep tissue. It sucks while it's being done but helps break up the stuff causing the problems. After, at least for me, it felt much better.

What is 'ART' ?

Thx

Active Release Therapy. Kind of like doing a very agressive PNF stretch where the ART practitioner (chiropractor in my case) stretches you out in a certain way to help break up adheasions (Sp?) between muscles and other bad stuff.

I first heard of it from Gordo's board. A few people over there are practitioners and can speak about it a lot better then I can. But like I said it either works or it doesn't so you know pretty much right away if it is going to be of use or if you need to move on.

Gary, I know a PT that would check you out for free...and Manuel is due back soon as well.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Chip, thanks! I'm frustrated and grasping at straws, but will be back!

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I had/have Plantar Faciitis. My 1st PT sucked - just showed me some stretches. Then, no insurance = no PT. Then I went to a great PT - who told me that the 1st guys, "Should've been blasting it w/ ultrasound 3x a week". *Ultrasound doesn't hurt - it's waaaaaarrrrrrrrm. And my PT also had to get in there with this little wooden knobbby-thing-from-hell, to break up & soften & realign the scar tissue. I was white knuckling the chair for the 1st few weeks that he did this. But as it got better, the TX didn't hurt. And I got back to running really slow, just a few minutes on the t-mill. But, like I said, I made a full recovery...

There's this wierd thing I noticed, sometimes, some chiros think that the only way to fix something is by chiro, same for some acupuncturists, orthopedists, LMT's, etc. Not EVERYBODY is like that, of course, but I do see it occaisionally. Don't know why your chiro wouldn't suggest combining therapies to help you heal faster - I think using several approaches gives you the best shot at a full & speedy recovery...

I'm a firm believer in what a PT can do for certain injuries, and yours sounds like one that can be helped by a good PT.

*note: my injury mysteriously came back at the end of last season, 7 years after it originally appeared. It wrecked my '05 season, but I think it's under control again, so I'm planning a full '06 season.

Hope you get some good help & feel better soon!!!

Thanks IronDeb for the advice. I had a call from another LMT this am, after one e-mailed me that perhaps I should think about not running .....ever! Man, what a joke that is. Anyway, I may see her, as she suggested a full 1.5 hour session, with a number of stretches to get the muscles aligned again? I also will ask the chiro why he isn't attacking on multiple fronts as you suggest. The ultra is something I have had in the past, and it helped then. I'll also take Chip up on his offer for a PT.
Good luck with your situation. It must help a bit that your line of work gives you the knowledge of how to treat/control these issues. Thanks very much!

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I also try to make it a point to only go to PT's, Orthopedists, etc that are, or have been, athletes themselves - so that they understand how ridiculous it'd be to suggest not running!!! I forgot to mention that. My PT was a former marathoner, and he knew better than to tell me not to run, and his goal was to get me back to running as soon, but as safely, as possible.

Stretches are great, but that's also something that the sucky PT's had me doing during the visits, and I was like, "Um, I can stretch at home - whip out the expensive equipment & heal me!!!"

So, if you can find a PT/athlete, even better - they'll understand what you need & want outta therapy.



Good luck!!!

I'll definitely second what IronDeb says- you want to find someone that will treat using multiple techniques. The Chiro I go to uses ART, electrostim, ultrasound, chiro, stretching... pretty much any and all possible methods that can help the situation. A typical session for lower back pain/nerve impingement that was causing numbness in my upper thigh looked like this: electrostim with heat for 20 min, 20 min on the exercise bike to loosen up, ART, stretching, chiro adjustment, ice for 20 min. When I went to see him for plantar fasciitis he did electrostim with heat, the wooden dowel of death, ART, stretching, and then ice.

This was all, after the sports med doc at my HMO said to take anti-inflammatories and rest for 8-10 weeks.

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Sound like you have a great Chiro!!!

That cursed 'wooden dowel of death'!!! That thing hurts like a MF!!!