So long as you don't race in a hilly area, weight isnt a real big issue. Thus the 575 is a great way to go and will leave you 350 bucks for a front wheel. If you plan in qualifying for Kona then consider the H3.

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- Nick
Now that I know some of you guys look through the special needs bags for kicks, I'm gonna put some really weird stuff in mine. I can see it now. "What the heck was he going to do with a family pack of KFC chicken, a football helmet full of peanut butter, a 12 inch rubber dildo, and naked pictures of Bea Arthur?"

How about for Ralph's California HIM or IM Lake Placid, looks like some hills there. Would one go with a Disc still? If so The Madeira lists its weight at 980g, or 575 which is about 200g heavier. Should one go with the H3 C for more versatility?

Well, you mentioned most aero - it has been said here a thousand times: a disc is a disc is a disc. Why even get the Madeira version of the Renn if weight doesn't matter? Well, because I think it does (to me anyway). Just get a Zipp disc and be done (same aero and save up to 1/2 lb! over other discs) - BUT, it will cost 'ya ... perhaps even twice as much. Is it twice as nice - no way, but they sure don't have any problem selling 'em.

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Dude,

Here is thing. You can't go wrong with a disk or the H3C rear. Although, from everything I have read, the marginal weight differences between different disks will not make a big difference in your performance, there is a psychological effect. If your disk is heavy and you are on a hilly couse, you may not believe you are going fast. And , in my opinion if you are concerned about weight going in then, this pscyhological effect may translate into a real issues in the form of performance costs.

Seeing you are somewhat concerned with weight, you should get a lightweight disk, like either a Madeira or Zipp if you go the disk route or the H3c if you go the tispoke route. If you choose a disk, you will be the most aero. If you choose the H3C, it may be slightly less aero but you have added versatility. In the end, you will be very fast on either a disk or H3C.

I have the Hed Disk and I like it but it is noticeably heavy.

I have a RENN and a HED (Won the HED)

Both feel the same to me and the cost on the is very different.

I've purchased many used discs on eBay. I've had most of them out there, Ghibli, HED, Zipp, and my current HED3D. I also have the HED3C front. Buy a used combo. Wheels made nowadays last for along time, buy a used set and save $$. My current everyday training set of HED3's are really Specialized from 1993!!! They look, ride and feel new.

Get a used Zipp disc and used HED3 front as your race wheels. Then when you are rich and famous buy a brand new set just for the hell of it!!

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Paul

Money being no object, a Zipp disk is the gold standard.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

For what? I mean, being as you don't do triatlons and all:



sbr140.6

Aug 28, 2005, 7:56 PM

Post #17 of 78 (2484 views)
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Re: Larsen is still a PUNK [record10carbon] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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I don't do triathlons, I just write about others who do.

Time Trials.

Well... Tom obviously didn't read your "under $750.00" requirement, so I'd go with the HED. Proven speed.

It has been said a thousand times. That doesn't make it right. Disks have different shapes and widths and they can behave very differently. For example, 700c disks in one study had rotating drag numbers ranging from 101 to 123:

http://www.bsn.com/...eelAerodynamics.html

It's also the case that lens disks (like Hed's) do significantly better in crosswinds than flat disks like Zipps (see the table in the source above).

-- Jens

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

hey Tom, if, as I've read here before, a disk is a disk, why Zipp as the gold standard? Cool factor? Quality? Warranty?

Thanks

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"It's also the case that lens disks (like Hed's) do significantly better in crosswinds than flat disks like Zipps "

CH Aero covers are also lens shaped. Kraig Willet's wind tunnel study comparing one to a Zipp makes an interesting read.

What about 808 tubular? Very light, and supposedly approaches aero-ness of a disc. Serviceable too. Not sure if it meets the price requirement though.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

"why Zipp as the gold standard"

I was amazed when first examining a Zipp close up. Very light and excellent quality. It may not be any faster, but the construction is superb.

I got one of the original Renn Disc wheels about 3 years ago. Best dam bike purchase I ever made. I have never, flat out never, have gotten better customer service from any vendor both proffessionally or personally then with Frank at Renn. Even three years after the sale, his customer service is outstanding.

Peace,

RF

are disk users punks?

;)

and yes, I have a 575

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If I had one wheel to be my wheel for everything, I would go with the Zipp 808. It offers the aerodynamics of a disk, the weight of a climbing wheel, and is Kona legal.

I personally have a disc and a 404 that I interchange for races. Courses with lots of climbing or cornering gets the 404, flat and straight gets the disc (plus I don't have to change the gear ratios for the different courses because I just change the whole wheel). I did get these wheels years before the 808 came out, but if I had to do it again, the 808 would be the economical choice, especially with the 10spd giving all the gears you would ever realisticly need.

Yup - I agree. Quality is why they are the gold standard. The never rest on their laurels and are always innovating. The Renn disc is very nice, cheap, and will be nice in 10 years too - but it will probably be the same as it is now. Zipp is constantly doing research and trying to improve. Their Z-series hubs are absolutely amazing for example. Now the new dimples. In a few years, who know - but I will bet it will be better/different. Now this costs, yes, but the "gold standard" is a fitting term for this level of quality, hand-built product and ongoing improvement.

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

err, ahh...mmm

it all comes down to a definition of best, as always, its a compromise on a whole bucket of factors that define best...weight, quality, aero, serviceability, durability, cost, coolness, graphics, customer service, hub quality... etcetcetc

i am a relative greenhorn (4 sprints) so i cant offer a lot of comparators to other wheel options...only comments

i bought a used set of 2002 zipp 909's which are a 404 with different stickers on the front and a 909 disc, the price was high relative to some other options...i paid about $800USD.

when i got the wheels i got them out of the box and was pretty thrilled at the finish and quality, even in used condition, but they didnt feel that light, despite knowing the weight differences in numbers...then i picked up my stock ultegra wheels and nearly fell over, they felt like they were full of water or made of lead.

now i am only speaking to zipps disk here, but the idea that a disk is only for a flat course (due to weight) just does not fly for a zipp disc. i think thats already been stated, i am just confirming.

other things that factored into the decision to buy this wheelset...

-price was pretty good when i considered the quality and reputation of zipp and its effect on longevity and resale price if chose to sell

-aerodynamics were purported to be very good

-i like toys and dont give (much) of a hoot if i look like a poser (whatever that is)

-the sound is very cool (couldnt figure out where that steam engine chuffing noise was coming from on my first ride) and is motivating

so given what you have to spend, if your willing to buy used, you can get a top end product if you decide thats best with your own permutation of 'best' and given the lightness of the zipp it does have versatility for differing terrains

and finally, as yet i havent gone faster with the new wheels...maybe its all the changing ive been doing on bikes and fit (cerveloguy fitting me lopsided to slow me down?!?), maybe i am just lazy, maybe theres no such thing as aerodynamics and we should all just slip through the ether with zero drag and streamers on our handlebars...time will tell...have fun.

Hey Sbr140.6

I think if you want to squeeze every last inch of speed out of your bike a disc is the way to go. I have a Renn 575 and love it and I use it on all my TT’s, one’s with hill or flat. Remember if you go up a hill you get to go back down and with a disc you just haul ass!! But if you need a fast wheelset for fast training and racing I think the H3’s would be a better bet. I train with my Spinegy Rev-x wheels and use the front Rev-X wheel with my Renn for TT’s.

But if you don’t get a disc you will always wonder, “is it faster” it is!

Ride hard.

Dan…