Are you telling me that dude can take a full breath of air, lie face down, and still sink to the bottom? Man, I know some really REALLY lean guys, and I'm talking like ~5% bodyfat for real, not from some scale or caliper test. We're talking like the leanest guys around. And even they can float enough if they take a breath. I thought I was a bad sinker, too, but it turns out I float just fine that way.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

eat gassy foods before the swim

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Yup I didn't believe it myself until I saw it. He's about 5'8" and probably 170-175ish (total guess on my part) - big time gym rat. He inhaled a deep breathe, tucked into a ball, and his toes touched bottom and kind of stayed there in 4' of water. dead man float - full breathe again, face down arms out stretched same thing, down he goes.

I keep telling him we can keep working on it and get there. I have a buddy (also african-american) that went through pre-ranger with me when we were both 2LTs. I screwed my ankle up and when he did the 25m swim test it was like watching a submarine periscope go under on a dive. needless to say neither of us made it to Ranger school that year. 3yrs later we ran into each other again in the 82nd. we both had our tabs. My first words to him were "Hey Mike! I guess you learned to swim better...:-)"

It is only a 15m swim. Big difference.

yah you're right just looked it up. 15m. 10m less won't make a difference, it might as well be 100m for this kid. anything constructive to offer?

Nothing other that just have him suck it up and practice and he'll have no fear. I certainly don't remember any significant swimming in BDUs off the Zodiacs when I went thru Ranger school. Since you have a tab on your shoulder, he'll listen to you. Give him confidence, since that what Ranger school is all about ('ya remember, bulletbroof - well, no food and sleep to if I remember :)
How many triathletes spend countless hours in the pool, possibly even with some open water swim training, only to panick and call for the Kayak's during their first race in a wetsuit. Confidence ...

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

If I remember correctly from my time in the Marine Corps the Combat Swim Qual (essentially the same test) had very little to do with swimming. Regardless of body fat pretty much everyone sinks like a stone with a 9 pound rifle, 5 pound boots, a pack. etc...

I would have him practice vertical kicking with his arms at his sides and then sculling with his hands... he's going to have to muscle through this one and will need help with technique. Maybe show him how to side stroke... IMO it's the best way to get through the water if you can't kick properly (like when you're wearing boots)

Wow, I've never seen or heard of that before. Usually lean boney guys have it worse than muscular guys (muscle doesn't sink as bad as bone!). Hard to believe his upper body sinks when full of air. Dude must have tiny lungs!

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

I had the same thing happen with my boy scout troop a few months ago. We were supposed to have the boys float with minimal movement for 30 sec on their backs, and 1 min in a deadman float. One of the boys sank right to the bottom. Even with a full lung-full of air. And he was the linebacker kind of build. maybe 15-20% body fat. He ended up having to scull pretty heavily, and when he swam he had to kick pretty hard to stay afloat, but he managed to do pretty well. Poor kid, though. He was tuckered out by the time we were done!

I have that same problem. Nobody believes me until we get into the pool and they see that I sink, no matter what.

I'm 5'11", around 175 lbs, 8-9% body fat, medium build. Last time I was at the doctor I asked about this, and he told me that I have very dense bone structure, therefor I will always sink like a rock.

Thank God for wetsuits!

I swam competitively in high school and sank just like your buddy. I could not float without kicking or sculling no matter how much air I had in my lungs. I could also swim 100 yards underwater without breathing. I am fat now and float.

The best way to teach him to swim is to keep his head in the water as much as possible. No out of water recovery, i.e., no freestyle. Breast stroke with scissor kick or side stroke. I would opt for breast stroke with scissor kick. This allows him to use his upper body strength and leg strength without the awkwardness of a frog kick. His head can stay nearly subemerged until he has to breathe and it gives him a head-forward sighting position. He can do it. Good luck and God bless you both.

Once you solved the buoyancy thing, have him do the one armed crawl. Lock the rubber duck to his side and don't use that arm at all. Then nice fluid relaxed strokes. Not too fast either. Scissor kick. Maybe take him to Tucker gym when PRC does the swim test so he can watch. You are at Bragg Right? That 10 meters would make a huge difference to someone who just finished a pt test and has a 5 miler in the morning.

i'm 6'1, 165lb, and pretty lean, and i happen to be the same way, i sink!, sorta annoying really, however now that i've been swimming competitively for 2 years, and teaching swimming for the past 6, the best advice I can offer is to work on kicking, tons and tons of kicking, once you have mastered kicking the rest of the stroke is alot easier to learn IMO.

Some simple progressions I use with my kids

- holding onto the wall, or you supporting them, and just kick, to make it fun i play games with them "who can make the biggest splash, or fastest kicker in 20 sec etc"


- then kick board in front, kick around - some kids have the tendency to go backwards kicking, and they're super suprised, this generally happens because they arn't pointing there toes - audio cues - ballariena toes!,


- knees - keep them straight/locked - I like tin man (sans oil) legs, and normally do a bit of a skit for that, if they can't do it, you can grab around the knees and just hold them straight, and you "kick" for them (i dunno about the physics of this for a grown man however)

- then progress to two bleach bottles (empty) - if they can hold them and kick, gradually start filling them with water till they're a neutral/negative bouancy

- in and around here i would start teaching face in/face out of the water kicking.. once thats mastered and they can breath to the side comfortably...

- then go to blast offs (pushing off the wall), with no aids/and 5 kicks, gradually start moving away from the wall, and the kid will have to kick further each time to get to you, before they know it - they can do it

- once they've mastered front kicking you can go to back kicking, start with flutter board on stomach, then move to back of the head, then no flutter board

- I hope this helps..

-david

ok this is result of not being in the water enough. If he wants to be buoyant and learn how to swim he can't just have one lesson of you showing him things. This is something that requires his effort to go and swim laps. This is the best way to learn. It may start out bad but this is the only way. My body fat percentage is 8% recently calculated by the university of montreal. I've been swimming most of my life and I have no problems when it comes to buoyancy. He has to go a swim laps, do kick, do drills, sculling, treading water. It's very similar to the stuff I was doing here http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/navy/jobs_e.aspx
before I went back to school.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

ok this is result of not being in the water enough. If he wants to be buoyant and learn how to swim he can't just have one lesson of you showing him things. This is something that requires his effort to go and swim laps.

This wasn't a one time deal and we both knew this was going to take practice, and have a longer-term view past the CWST RGR school requirement. However I fail to see your logic that all you have to do is swim more and you suddenely get more bouyant. So he struggles in the pool for 6wks. then what suddenly when I have him do a deadman float and instead of sinking to the bottom of the pool he floats. I'm going to have to pull out my Bullshit flag and say prove it.

My body fat percentage is 8% recently calculated by the university of montreal. I've been swimming most of my life and I have no problems when it comes to buoyancy.

Like I said in the first post I don't think it has everythign to do with BF% cause quick frankly I think the guy is higher than 10%. BOTTOMLINE: the guy sinks like a rock. and posting a link to canadian army recruitign doesn't really provide me with much.

I've already got him kicking and learnign to tread and scull. But I still fail to see the logicial leap of this makign him more bouyant.

David,

thanks - I think I had him at the last two of your steps. This guy is probably 25 yo so I don't need to make a game of it, and he might think I'm screwing with hi mif I tell him ballariena toes :-)



Jim

We were actaully at Atchley pool ( they installed walls breaking it up into 3 sections). once he progresses I was already planning on running with him from the Group area (rielly -yadkin) to ardennes and run him through the whole CWST - that's what happened in my pre-rgr. but we are firmly in the crawl phase of training....

everybody else (espeacially my fellow comrades in arms) thanks for the help.

Jim

You can't just learn to be buoyant and how to float. It takes control. I'm not trying to say that because he has a low body fat percentage that he can't float. It honestly takes practice and time to learn how to be totally comfortable in the water. I was just stating that it was the same sort of tests we had there, I just posted the link. No need to sound peeved and whatnot. I'm just trying to offer a little bit of advice, but he needs to be in the water every day if he's going to pass this test. Thats all.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan