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There's been a lot of talk lately about doping, illegal substances, where cheating actually begins, whether it is ethical to take some supplements simply because they're not on the IOC blacklist, etc... It was all rather interesting, but being pretty new to the sport (about 2 years) and with no background in endurance sports, I was wondering what you people think are the LEGAL substances that actually work. What products, in what dosage, when to take them, what's best for what (for example IM vs high intensity workouts), etc...
I know that there's a plethora of information out there, but as many of you have correctly pointed out, many statements by the producers of some supplements are simply generous at best, when not completely misleading. Therefore I would like to hear what you have tried and what has really worked for you and what it is to avoid. For example, the amount of antioxydants one should take per day during base period and during race season, or when to take branched aminoacids (before, after a long workout, or both?), or does Creatine really help in endurance sports?
Thank you
Filippo
Man, this is getting ridiculous. Why do you supplement junkies have so little confidence in your training? Just train. Do it consistently. Find an extra half-hour a week to squeak in an extra run. Throw an extra 10lbs on the squat bar. Work on your swim technique. If after training for years you're still not winning your AG, then get a coach or deal with the fact that maybe, just maybe, you are not the next Whitfield/Reid/et al.
Eat properly (before, during and after training), gets plenty of rest and drink lots of water and Gatorade or whatever electrolyte-replacement drink you prefer. You will be head and shoulders above most of your AG if you are consistent. There are no (legal) magic potions that will give you an edge if you don't cover off the basics. Even steroids would have little benefit unless you follow all of the above.
I believe that you didn't even bother to read my post but just the heading. I'm not asking for any magic formula, nor I am a "supplement junkie," I simply wanted some information from people I am sure know a lot more than me period, definitely I am not interested in your slightly offensive rant.
Filippo
Water, tap or will bottled help performance, Gatorade Oh not that it has performance inhancing electrolites, Red meat NO it has protein which may start you on the road of dopeing.
Can't we all just get along?
France sucks ; D
Filippo,
Regardless of what the "everything from your diet" folks think I don't think it is possible for most endurance athletes that have full time jobs to get everything they need from food alone. Unless you are able to prepare everything you need and take it to work everyday it is just not feasible IMO. That said, things that work would be a good multi-vitamin to ensure that you are getting your nutrient needs met and a good EFA supplement such as Flax oil to ensure that you are meeting your essential fat's needs (primarily Omega 3 which controls inflammation).
This in combination with a healthy diet, and your consitent training will help you achieve your goals.
Thanks T2, that's pretty much the type of answer I was looking for.
Just opinions from those who've been in the sport longer than I have.
Filipo-In my opinion, the best supplements for most people would be some of the powdered shakes. Most people call them protein shakes, or meal replacements, but I don't like either of these names, because there is more than just protein in them, and you definitely shouldn't be replacing real food with them.
Having said that, most people don't consume the necessary 5-6 small meals per day that will be necessary for maximum recovery. Most people consume at most 2-3 meals per day, and these meals are usually mediocre at best.
There are some good shakes that are pre-made, or you can just get a separate container of protein and a low sugar carb drink. Then, every couple of hours try to eat a real meal. If you don't eat a meal, just mix up a shake.
This is super cheap, virtually non controversial, and another excuse to consume more liquids.
Hope this helps!!
Jeff
Creatine is probably the only one with any proven efficacy. But that's probably only if weight training / strength gains are your goal. The added water weight and anecdotal tendency towards increased frequency of muscle cramps probably make its value questionable for endurance athletes.
Caffeine is another one, and it's been demonstrated in a number of studies. It's illegal (according to the IOC anyway) to have urinary levels above 12 mcg/mL but typical doses (3-5mg/kg) would be under that threshold.
Caffeine was unbanned, I think. Drink up!
Filipo - no personal dig intended. It's possible that I've been in the sport longer than you and was trying to save you some cash. Aside from cod liver oil and the odd cycle of glucosamine for the joints, nothing else has ever made much difference for me, nor for a lot of people I train with. There are too many people who load up on stuff that makes no difference, simply because nutrition is not their limiting factor - properly training is. Think about it.
Personally, I've had success with creatine, amino acids, multi vitamins, Cytomax and Endurox. Taking these regularly, I have noticed an increase in leg strength and a decrease in recovery time.
My 2 cents, but all the other junk has just resulted in very expensive urine.
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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!
my best supplement is my alarm clock. turn the volume up loud and disable the 'snooze' button. 4am is where its at!
The closest thing to a supplement that I will take is Endurox. I only drink the Endurox when I need it for convenience sake, otherwise I'll make something similar.
To continue with the flavor of this thread, here is my 2 cents:
#1. Eating after a workout. Endurox for the convenience or chocolate milk, peanut butter on bread, etc.
#2. Eating 5-6 meals per day. Lots of fresh fruit and veggies. Cut out as much food as you can that is not going to help you get faster
#3. Stretching consistently.
#4. Getting enough sleep.
Fantastice breakfast that I eat every day while driving to work:
Blend:
2 cups OJ
5 or so frozen strawberries
1 frozen banana cut into pieces
1 scoop protein powder (nothing added, just soy or whey protein, it is safer and more convenient than "natural" sources like raw eggs)
1 large spoonful of vanilla yogurt.
Blend and pour into an old 1 quart gatorade container.
I am definitely in agreement with Tom's post except I drink Accelerade instead of Endurox (could not get used to the taste). I try to drink it either during or right after I work out. Then I try to eat a high quality meal consisting of carbs and protein right after. In addition, I try to eat another high quality meal within an hour after that. I'm frequently not that hungry so these meals are relatively small. I've been training for many years and this is the first time I'm using this strategy. I have found that I am not nearly as sore and my recovery is much faster after a hard workout. I do the Vit. E & C and protein shake thing as well, but it's the timing of my eating that I think has made the biggest difference for me.
Creatine has no benefit in the Aerobic energy system, period. For alactic energy work it does the trick- so for sprinting or weights perhaps, but as far as aerobic work goes it is useless, and irrelevant. Train your body and adapt through time- hydrate, eat well and use a multivitamin and mineral supplements if necessary.
Endurox, Accelerade etc... all serve to aid activity and recovery and are worth a try in addition to training.
Weeman
How do you go about disabling the snooze?!?!
KEEP ON TRI-NG
A training partner that knows how to train with you, makes you go when you don't want to, makes you slow down when you go too hard, kicks your tail when you aren't doing the right thing, and gives you a break every once in a while, because hey...it's supposed to be fun! All legal. Most effective.
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
break off the button.... or if you're high tech, open it up and cut the wire to the snooze button....
Thank you guys. I really appreciate your input
To sum things up, what one should do seems to be the following:
eat 5/6 healthy meals a day
drink drink, and keep drinking
take some extra vitamins and eventually some aminoacids
Endurox and Accelerade are excellent for recovery
train with somebody who knows when to go hard and when to cut you some slack
sleep well but wake up early to squeeze in an extra workout
Whatever you do, HAVE FUN.
Other than waking up at 4 am I think I'm on the right track, because after 2 years of tri I'm in the best shape ever and I'm really having a blast!
Filippo
I wouldn't bother with amino acids. There really isn't any scientific evidence that they help. Just make sure you get enough protein, whether it's from "regular" food or food + suppplements like Endurox.
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However, if you increase your power and strength and can therefore reduce the aerobic expenditure needed to push the pedals, doesn't it stand to reason that you will tax your aerobic system less and thus, increase endurance?
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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!
The phosphates involved in the alactic system extend the alactic energy capability- but given that you can only perform explosively for 10-15 seconds it only benefits such events as sprinting, powerlifting etc... if you hammer on the bike at the end of a race you may reap the benefits once you are anaerobic, but it won't extend your aerobic range in any way. I have all the scientific spiel that accompanies this if anyone is interested...
Weeman
Food is the basis of any program. The trick is balancing the anabolic process (regeneration of muscle and vital systems in the body) vs. the catabolic process (muscle breakdown due to exercise, in this case). I would venture a guess that most of endurance athletes do not eat enough AND/OR at the wrong time AND/OR the wrong foods at the wrong time. Food combining is a major aspect of proper nutrition. Eating starchy foods with animal proteins is very taxing on your digestive system and your recovery from workout to workout will suffer. Add to this not eating the right type and amount of carbs durring and following and you'll be in carbo hydrate deficit, which presents itself in prolonged muscle soreness and "off workouts". In general (and everyone is different and each training environment tinkers with the formula) 60-80g of carbs per hour of exercise is ideal. Following exercise, take in a solid recovery formula that includes branched-chain amino acids, plant-based protein, and a high-glycemic carb. Another option is eating a toasted bagel (high-glycemic), spread with banana mashed w/ honey. The next meal should be about 45-60 mintes later and consist of Low-glycemic carbs and plant-based protein. Amount of food is a simple formula of taking all carbs consumed from breakfast and training and subtract from daily caloric intake for carbs (personalized) and multiply be 90%. The final meal of the day is when you get your meat on and the final 10% of carbs should be veggies. Yeah, it seems a bit complicated, but the benefits of being able to race and train day after day at new levels speak volumes for the commitment.
Pretty much the only use for creatine in endurance training is if your off-season plan includes some heavy weight lifting for a while. Creatine supplementation will help you build a little extra strength, which may indirectly help later on. But I wouldn't take it before a race...
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