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lactic acid buffer .. is this true?
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I just read this online .... what do you guys think of this ... is it common knowledge or crazy talk?



Lactic acid buffer supplements...
Combining sodium bicarbonate and phosphate salts, such as potassium and
sodium phosphate (but not calcium phosphate...has been found to reduce
physical performance), with CreatineMonohydrate increases the lactic acid
buffering capacities of the creatine (one of the pathways through which creatine increases performance), and act as performance enhancing boosters in their own right.

"Dramatic Improvements in Power and Endurance with Less Perceived Effort..."

Dr Ian Stewart and his colleagues at the Tasmanian Institute of Technology did a study of highly trained cyclists, giving them 3.6 grams of sodium phosphate a day or a placebo, for three days before a maximum effort on the ergometre bicycle.

Results showed that phosphate loading reduced lactic acid accumulation, increased 2,3 - DPG production during exercise( puts more oxygen in blood), increased VO2 max by 11%,and increased time to exhaustion by 20%
(Stewart I, McNaughton L Res Quart 1990;61:80-84).

One of the most recent and best studies (KREIDER RB, et al Int J Sports Nutr 1992;2:20-47) which tested both anaerobic and endurance exercise gave trained cyclists 4 grams of sodium phosphate per day or a placebo for 3 days prior to a maximal exercise test and a 40km time trial on the ergometre bicycle.

During the aerobic phosphate trials, time for the 40km ride was reduced by 3.5 minutes. That's big.
During the anaerobic phosphate trials, the maximal power output increased by 17%. As Dr Michael Colgin points out in his excellent book Optimum Sports Nutrition, that’s the equivalent to adding 51 lbs to a 300 lb maximum bench press!

Dr Robert Cade and his group at the Department of Medicine of the University
of Florida in 1984 ran a well controlled study (double blind, placebo, crossover
design). Ten highly trained distance runners consumed either 1 gram of sodium phosphate four times daily or a placebo for three days. They then ran them on a treadmill to exhaustion. During the phosphate loading trial, lactic acid levels were lower, 2,3 -DPG levels were higher,VO2 max increased by 6-12%,and subjects ran 3-9 minutes longer (Cade R,et al Med Sci Sports Exer 1984;16:263-268).
The regimen practised by the researchers at the University of Florida has proved to be successful with no adverse effects in the subjects being reported. The dosage was 1 gram of sodium phosphate 4 times per day mixed with water or fruit juice (e.g. at breakfast, lunch, tea and supper) for 3-4 days prior to competition. The last dose may be 2 to 3 hours prior to training or physical event.
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In the 80's sprint event riders and canoeists. (30 sec to 5 min events) used to do this fairly regular. One problem is that your urine ph has to be within certain parameters for drug testing. That may mean a long wait in drug control until your urine gets a low enough ph after ingesting all that bicarb.

That is not a concern for most folks, but taking that much sodium on is hard on the kidneys and hell on some peoples blood pressure. It isn't quite doping but getting into the grey area.

I am not convinced I could notice a difference in either my kilo ride or 500m /1000m paddle times using the stuff. I do remember it is nasty to drink that stuff. As far as triathlon training, I think lactic acid build up isn't as big of factor in the aerobic events as in the "burner" events.
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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We used to mess around with sodium bicarbonate in the exercise phys lab and had a bit of success and a lot of failures. There is some learning curve to ingesting the large amount of the stuff needed to supposedly buffer LA. At the time, the story(rumor) was that some one was trying to make the Olympic cycling team and decided to get himself an edge on race day by soda loading. The story goes that he never made it to the track due to explosive diarrhea which is a known possible side effect. I was not in to cycling so I do not know if it was true. Anyhow, as with any supplement, try it in training first. Back then (about 20 years ago) studies were inconclusive as to it's effectiveness, but some had positive results swayed towards possible benefits for repeated bouts of high intensity efforts like intervals, race trails for 400/800/1500k running, soccer playing, ... I do not know what the current research suggests.
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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phosphate loading works, but it can be tricky

read up at www.cptips.com
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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ditto what tim said - i'd heard that for all practical (ie., non-laboratory) purposes, the lactate-buffering properties were probably going to be outweighed by the 'explosive diarrhea.'

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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ok so i have pretty much decided not to try this ... thanks!
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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you can try "SportLegs." Avoid the sodium-bicarbonate. A couple of guys on our team used it once before an erg test; it was very bad for them. Sport Legs is calcium, magnesium, and (I think) a little bit of phosphate. Plus it is dosed out for you (1 cap per 50lbs of body weight), so you don't have to play scientist. Does it help? I don't know. Hopefully this winter I can do some rides with it and without it and test for a difference using my Lactate Pro (thanks buddy)! Never had any of the "negative" side effects from using. That much I know.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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Bicarbonate loading tends to improve performance in events lasting up to ~ 10-minutes. You need to use a fairly heft dose of sodium bicarbonate of 0.3 g per kg body mass (i.e., 21 g for someone with a mass of 70 kg). There is quite a bit of research showing that this loading protocol works. However, as pointed out, around 50% of subject suffer severe GI problems...

On the other hand with phosphate loading, this does *not* lower lactate levels and the data is somewhat equivocal. we have the lastest published research (CJAP, abstract) using well trained athletes on phosphate loading (unless someone has published within the last 12 months). we found an 8% increase in power output (not speed) in a laboratory 10-mile TT using a randomised, placebo, double-blind crossover protocol. the type of phosphate used may possibly affect the results (some phosphate cause a positive effect and some cause no effect). we used well trained cyclists and triathletes, who had beaten 24 minutes for a 10mile TT on standard road bikes only. see http://cyclecoach.com/...sphates&ext=.htm. The method by which the improvement can occur isn't fully elucidated, and may not be via an increase in 2,3-BPG. We used tribasic dodecahydrate sodium phosphate for our study. I do not know where to obtain it (other than e.g., a chemical company). It is dirt cheap if anyone is selling it.

Ric

http://www.cyclecoach.com
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [Ric_Stern] [ In reply to ]
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Ugggg.... I just found this on the web when I googled for tribasic dodecahydrate sodium phosphate.

SECTION 11. - - - - - - - - - TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION - - - - - - - -
ACUTE EFFECTS
HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED, OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN.
MATERIAL IS EXTREMELY DESTRUCTIVE TO TISSUE OF THE MUCOUS MEMBRANES
AND UPPER RESPIRATORY TRACT, EYES AND SKIN.
INHALATION MAY RESULT IN SPASM, INFLAMMATION AND EDEMA OF THE
LARYNX AND BRONCHI, CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS AND PULMONARY EDEMA.
SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE MAY INCLUDE BURNING SENSATION, COUGHING,
WHEEZING, LARYNGITIS, SHORTNESS OF BREATH, HEADACHE, NAUSEA AND
VOMITING.


I don't think I would swallow any of that stuff!!!
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [rroobbcc] [ In reply to ]
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yes, we had to go through a load of ethics committee meetings to use the stuff. the only issue (we found) was that if the phosphate was taken in capsular form some people suffered with (almost) instantaneous vomitting. Once we got people to 'dissolve' the phosphate into ~ 500 mL of a fruit cordial there was no problems, apart from the solution tasting like cr@p. "like drinking sea water" was the main comment.

ric

http://www.cyclecoach.com
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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Sandy, severe wind and stomach cramps and/or diarrhoea are associated side effects! Be cautious with this if you decide to experiments.


"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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I have used this

http://www.e-caps.com/...049&OMI=&AMI=



with no side effects and all the placebo effect.

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [smartasscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Twinlabs made a powder form called Phosfuel. I havent seen it on the shelves in years.
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [jdavis1040] [ In reply to ]
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They discontinued that a couple of years ago.

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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I think that lactic acid can be useful and therefore we don't need to buffer. Sure it produces soreness but I don't think that that is the same thing as fatigue. In fact, some studies have shown that lactic acid buildup reduces fatigue.
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Re: lactic acid buffer .. is this true? [kindsteve] [ In reply to ]
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You have to be careful when making general statements regarding energetics. The duration/intensity of the event dictates the usefulness of or hindrance associated with LA. While it's true that LA can be converted to a useful form of fuel for longer distance events, it may not be desirable for shorter intense bursts of effort. This results in huge amounts of LA being dumped in to your system at a rate much higher than your body can react to. You have apply the old law of specificity and see how the scenario will play out. It's kind of like seeing the mook that is downing powerbars before a 5k vs a person who is carboloading to run a marathon, two entirely different energy systems will be at work.
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