Ok, gotcha. While you can't technically ride along side someone indefinately, could you not skirt the aborted pass issue by not even entering the draft zone? Dan, in your Monty example, he couldn't force everyone to DQ because if he were to force them into his draft zone while they were clearly to his left (and outside the draft zone), he would be blocking. Conversely, if they were attempting to pass (not in the draft zone) but fail to do so within the 15 second time-frame. they don't get called for the draft penalty (and thus avoid the DQ) becuase they were never in said draft zone.

Right?

Oh, come on, Dan. Any rule can be taken to the extreme. Technically, I could penalize someone riding well behind me. All I have to do is wait until I see a referee, slow down so that they close to within the drafting zone, then accelerate when they try to pass. No one would be expecting something this ridiculous so it would work. I could also sprint to pass a stronger rider, slow down, and sprint again to accomplish the same thing. What if my shoe comes unclipped, I slow down, get it back in and accelerate again as they get close? Maybe the "safety" exception would apply in these cases.

Maybe the rule needs to state it clearly, but I can't see anyone being penalized like this.

"Oh, come on, Dan. Any rule can be taken to the extreme."

i'm not going to lose any sleep over this, but this is also by no means a hypothetical. it happens often, in every race. it happens when a good rider on the flats comes up on a good hillclimber, just to find out that he's not got the juice to go by on a hill. it happens in reverse, when a good climber crests the hill just behind a good descender, to find the descender pulling away. it happens in the circumstances i describe when i myself "force" a penalty on the guy behind me, tho it's not a penalty i'm trying to evoke.

i've never received a position foul. but i know a lot of people who have, and to whom it happens in odd situations where the foul is not particularly deserved. i've put on races in which 25% of my field is penalized, and it's pretty hard to explain to people doing their first triathlon why they should continue in the sport when the sport has greeted them by telling them they're a cheater.

i see the rules being badly written, badly explained, badly sold and badly interpreted by certain officials. but overall it's a good process. i'd like to do my part in helping the process go a bit better yet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I agree with not liking the current rules, lthough I've never heard of anyone penalized for trying to pass and not being able to, assuming they then drop back out of the draft zone.

My proposal is to amend the current rule to give One free try (per instance). This way if you do come up to someone who is going to challenge your pass you can work from that knowledge. By this I mean either don't try to pass this person again (and in the real world this isn't likely to affect your race. If your not strong enough to edge your wheel in front of theirs, its highly unlikely that you would have finished a whole lot in front of them) or on your next pass attempt make sure you pass them. Typically this would involve dropping back and getting a good head of steam going, rather just creeping past.

A friend was issued a penalty at IM Wisconsin for this non-pass issue. It's not as if the rule isn't enforced, just not always explained as well as it has been here. I have used many of the strategies mentioned in this thread, and have discussed the issue with Charlie Crawford a few times to make sure they were legal. I think the main fault of USAT is in not making the rules clear to the participants, although I also think that anyone engaging in an activity should take it upon themselves to learn and understand the rules.
It also appears that USAT jumps around the rulebook every so often and finds a rule to strictly enforce for awhile, and then they move on to something else. Blocking, handlebar plugs, now unsuccessful passes....sort of a flavor of the week approach.
As for holding off the pass to put the other in penalty, using the draft zone during a pass, and using extra effort to execute a pass and then reverting to a slightly slower pace, these tactics are all within the rules. By the last, I mean as I approach someone at 21.3mph and they are travelling at 21.1mph, I may need to speed up to 23mph as they accellerate upon waking up to the pass. Once I execute the pass, though, I see nothing wrong with resuming my 21.3mph and forcing them to slow and drop back. They were travelling slower than me to begin with. My only other choice would be to stay behind them and adjust my speed down to 21.1 to avoid the draft zone.
Athletes in all sports use the rules to their advantage whenever possible. They also break them and accept the penalty, gambling that it will work in their favor sometimes. Ever watch a basketball game? Do you consider it cheating when a foul is committed...or just part of the game? What bothers me more than racing within the rules, and using them to one's advantage, is the seeming recent trend to go outside the rules, especially in the longer races, hoping that the time gained will outweigh the penalty.

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"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

I don't think it’s possible for someone to be in more than a couple of races without learning the rules. For as long as I can remember, in every race that I've been in, there has been a summary of the draft rules in the pre-race info packet, an explanation of the draft rules at the pre-race meeting, and sometimes a visual aid showing exactly how big the draft zone is.

The problem isn’t that people don't understand the rules; the problem is that people don't want to follow the rules. And I don’t think it’s the FOPers/MOPers that are cheating because, from my observations, they usually try to race as clean as possible. It’s the BOPers who don’t care about penalties because they’re racing to finish, not win (nothing wrong with that).

Here’s a suggestion: races should have “competitive” waves first and “sport” waves later. The USAT officials would treat these types of waves different. The “competitive” waves would be closely watched for drafting/position/blocking fouls and would be given penalties without warning. The “sport” waves would be monitored for safety and would be given reminders to ride to the right and not cross the centerline.

[quote]I don't think it’s possible for someone to be in more than a couple of races without learning the rules. [/quote] you must only do large, well organized, USAT-sanctioned races, or at least only races that have really detail-oriented RD's. for the newbie, who is (imho) likely to try the small, unintimidating, local race scene first, it's quite possible to go thru an entire season without seeing anything other than a "no drafting" reference in the race literature.

My experience jives with yours re: who is usually afoul of the rules, though I think there are more than a few MOPers in there too.

[quote]races should have “competitive” waves first and “sport” waves later[/quote] so long as the sport waves are also not eligible for AG or OA (or clyde/athena, or whatever subclass du jour) awards, I have no problem with this...but it only works for large wave-based races. again, the smaller (say, 100-200 entrants) local scene would have a hard time implementing this.