Camp experience in general. I think it does way more for kids turning out okay than school ever will. It did for me... and school has worked pretty darn well for me ... so imagine what camp can do for kids who don't fit in the public school framework.

particular camp - Camp Beech Cliff - worked there for 7 years. Before that, 5 years at Camp Podooc (much smaller camp on Lake George in Caanan, ME). This will actually only be the second summer of my life that I haven't worked at a summer camp!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

my wife read the OP...she thought it was a crock of shit (coming from an educated independent woman)

This is a hugely intriguing & exciting conversation. THIS is why Womens rock, by the way...we do not devlove in these conversations...we collaborate, listen, engage & consider. THIS is why this forum is important & gives me hope for society.

I identify with TC on the boxes & the identities. I've been there, I have & still am struggling with them. I'm currently working on how to "identify" myself as just me & separate the identity that my career/sport/gender/social status "should" bring or the social pressure to identify as such. Which probably relates back to the OP's point in some way. I don't want to just be a "swimmer" or a "woman" or a "sales person" or a "mom" or "successful"....I want all of those things & more. But it's my own self allowing the societal tags & pressures thereof...not any sort of patriarchal oppression or man-hate....the limitations & labels are things we allow to happen to us if we allow ourselves to be defined by them.

I've not allowed myself to be identified as a "rape victim" or a "woman in insurance" but I've allowed myself to fit within "female athlete" and allow myself to feel like a "heavier athlete" all the time & allow the internal wonkiness that comes from being in my early 30's, unmarried & without children. Instead of having those as pride points because I have made/do make/am making responsible decisions to do what is right for MY life at THIS time, I've allowed society's "norms" to let me feel weird about who/what/where I am. Does that make sense?

Same concept - different labels - no "y" either way...ha!

I identify wholly with not feeling "feministic" like TC because I have some pretty strong thoughts on why it's not necessary - but I'm grateful to those that have come before & fought the fight to allow me to feel that way. I've witnessed & been part of the struggle, but I've chosen to just not allow it to slow me down or do anything but be a momentary irritation. But I also wholly think that women deserve the right to try anything - but if our physiological or psychological differences create any inadequacies then standards should not be lowered to accomodate. I think women should either find a way to meet them or get out of the way of those who can. (I also whole-heartedly believe in traditions...example: I admire women for wanting to be at the Citadel...but I think if you're going to walk-the-walk you should be able to talk-the-talk...don't expect or request concessions. Everyone knows the rules/standards/expectations.)

Is that all contradictory?

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AW

THIS is why Womens rock, by the way...we do not devlove in these conversations...we collaborate, listen, engage & consider. THIS is why this forum is important & gives me hope for society.

^^^^ this.

No, I don't think it's at all contradictory :)

I share your feelings on society norms and standard holding. I applaud you for doing what's right for you at this stage of your life and not punching society's time-clock. Strong work. I was almost apoplectic about the recent allowing of women into "tip of the spear" combat positions--my husband still doesn't get why I was (am) so bent outta shape about that one;) But he's never been a woman in the military, so he indulges me and my rants. Poor guy.

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Trying to fight gravity on a planet that insists

I also think this is a very interesting conversation. If it started as a troll I am glad, because I think it has been fun to see where this goes. Regarding the quote above - this is exactly why I don't feel I can identify myself as a feminist. I completely agree with what Aware said here. Anyone should be allowed to try to meet the standard, but sometimes that standard is a universal one that the majority of women may not be able to meet - in my opinion that does not mean the standard should be changed. This does NOT mean I think the treatment of women in the Citadel or Air Force academy is equal or fair - I believe the treatment of women is Much Worse in many cases then their male counterparts.

I also get frustrated when I hear stories from my Mom who was told because she chose to stay home and raise her four children she was doing a diservice to women. While I may be dropping a charge here...I don't believe you can 'do everything' to the best of your ability. You can work your ass off and climb the corporate ladder and be great at it; you can be a full time parent (hardest job there is - and I don't have kids!) and be a great parent; but I don't believe you can be your best at BOTH at the same time all on your own. The one aspect of feminism I have dealt with a lot is the equal pay issue. For me, this is the issue - If I work 40 hours a week at the same job with the same expectations and responsibilities then I deserve the same pay. If I work 40 hours a week at the same job with the same expectations and responsibilities, but leave in the middle of the day because I have to pick up my child at school, or go to a doctors appointment or carpool for sports - this is not equal work. I am NOT saying the latter is wrong, in fact my Dad did except lower pay to attend our sporting events and the like. My point is I think we have to be realistic about what equal work is.

I hope this makes sense....coffee still kicking in!

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Don't Just Live, Thrive!
Thrive Kinematics Physical Therapy - http://www.facebook.com/...8178667572974?ref=hl

I have always been in male-dominated fields (Physicist in study; Manufacturing in work) and I never expect to be treated any differently. I've had issues an incidents over the years (one fellow who worked for me called a c*nt to my face, however as his boss I had the luxury to fire his ass and make an example of unacceptable behaviour regardless of gender; I had a StatMech prof who on day 1 of 5th year asked if I should be somewhere "ironing and doing dishes" and my revenge was to ace his class). I try to remove my gender from the equation and look back to basic principles of human behaviour instead.

I tell my 9yo daughter that tattle-telling solves nothing. If you have a problem with someone, you have to tell that person what the problem is, face to face, not by text or email. I tell my staff that at work all the time as well - complaining to me, without first trying to solve your problem directly, is tantamount to tattle-telling and it's not the behaviour YOU want so don't do it yourself. You have to model the behaviour you want in return.

So if I get all uppity about men, why would I expect fair treatment in return?

I agree that the pay equity issue is a sore spot for me as well. I am near the top of my field, and I know I am not making as much as I could... either at another company... or perhaps if I were male. I certainly can't substantiate the latter even if it's easy to assume that's the case. There's no evidence that I am underpaid due to my gender. However, I know I am underpaid because it is the company policy to compensate to the 50th percentile. If I were to find evidence to the contrary (i.e.: that it was due to gender), I'd make a royal albeit professional stink about it. I just don't think my gender should ever be part of the discussion - my competence should be. Maybe I'm lucky that it really hasn't ever been...

My 2cents worth of musings...

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

I don't think it's an "antiquated term," I think it's a regular word that has a socially-agreed upon meaning. That's how words work. There's nothing inherently wrong with the word other than what you choose to read into it.

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kelly dunleavy o'mara
@kellydomara

Just a question? If "womyn" is the plural, what's the singular version?

Or, should it be "womyn" (singular) and "womyns" (plural)?

I have to much I'd like to respond to in the whole thread but a bike ride waiting on me, so I just wanted to interject a quickie. I totally get where you're coming from BUT if you were prevented from Doing or Being X simply because of your sex by someone who held power over you (I had to sue a company once because my boss would only hire men for certain positions because women could not do the job since they'd never had woodshop in school (and in those days, yes, we were prevented from taking woodshop - we could only take home ec)) sometimes the only solution is "tattling".

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit