I'd love to hear some responses to this question as well because I'm trying to predict my first half ironman run split and train accordingly. I ran a half marathon in Feb in 1:47 or 8:12 pace. What would a reasonable run split goal be?

Check out this web-site by Gordo, it might help on HIM pacing:

http://www.byrn.org/gtips/halfpace.htm

To set a reasonable 1/2 IM run split goal, the next time you prepare to run a stand-alone 1/2 Mary, why not ensure a full warmup by swimming 1.2 miles and biking 56 miles?

Sorry I don't have any answers, but you and I are in the same boat. I have done a standalone 1/2 marathon in 1:45, but have yet to do better than a 2:10 in a halfIM run.

Some say you need to be a strong biker, but I tend to disagree. The bike is my strongest event and my splits are normally near the top of my AG. yet everyone and their grandma pass me on the run.

I've tried doing the bike at a more leisurely pace, but with no luck (They do call it a race afterall).

I do not think the loss in time is due to walking the aid stations at all.

It could be a hydration problem. I have severe difficulties with dehydration in any event in hot weather lasting over 1.5 hours. I have been experimenting with salt tabs and such. They seem to help, but have not used them in "battle" conditions yet.

2fast4u ,

I have found similar results with the two half IM runs I have done. Both have been over 9:25 pace, yet I can run a standalone in <1:40. I guess it is my bike fitness, but 2 minutes more seems like so much. Hopefully, this discrepancy decreases as I gain more experience/tri-specific fitness.

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"luck is at the intersection of preparation and opportunity"

http://www.drinkmorecustomwater.com

I used to be where you are now. In short races, running is a strength for me, but my half-IM runs were a struggle. At the Eagleman half-IM a few weeks ago I finally had a good (relative to my open half-marathon times) run and I believe it was due to (1) significantly better endurance due from consistent long-rides, (2) significantly better bike strength from regular hill riding and low-cadence strength intervals and (3) many months of regular, frequent running (not big mileage, ~30 miles per week, over and over and over again...).

In short, ride more, get strong and run regularly. Make sense?

Good luck,

Matt

Guys,

I forgot to mention that with proper fitness and pacing during the bike leg, you should be able to get your half-IM run split to within five (or so) minutes of your open half-marathon time.

Cheers,

Matt

It is probably your bike fitness / nutrition on the bike / hydration and nutrition on the run. I also found my faster 1/2 IM run splits were after high cadence bikes. My bike times are usually not great, but my best 1/2 IM run time is 1:33, and my best stand-alone half-marathon is 1:40 (??) [maybe the course at Eagleman was marked short or maybe biking at a high cadence led to running at a high cadence which led to a faster run time]

I think around 5- 8 minutes from your current Half marathon time is reasonable to shoot for (if the HIM course is accurate).

When your times drop off from that it's usually because you went too hard on the bike (assuming you have enough bike endurance). I know a lot of Uber bikers don't want to hear that but that's usually the case.

I suggest for your next few HIM's hold back on the bike until you nail the run. Then you'll have a baseline effort for the bike to make improvements (i.e for the bike and run).

Cheers!

Trevor

Sometimes this tri stuff is not as complicated as it looks. As a worldly and wise veteran of one HIM, I'll give you the answer:

YOU RODE YOUR BIKE 56 MILES BEFORE STARTING THE RUN!

I don't think your stand alone half marathon time is a good predictor of you HIM run time. I've never run a full marathon but my guess is that a better predictor would be your split for the 2nd half of a marathon.

Interesting thread, considering my best half-marathon is 1:30:36 and my best run within a half-Ironman is 25 minutes slower. On the other hand, my best 10K is in the 42:30 range and last summer I split a 42:54 on the back end of an international distance tri.

Admittedly I biked conservatively in the international because the course was pretty challenging and I wanted something left for the run. I thought I did the same for the bike at the half but apparently not. I also turn into a headcase come mile 8 or 9 if I'm getting tired, which probably has something to do with it. Thanks for the input.

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"The hero is someone in continual opposition to the status quo. The hero is always becoming himself." Jos� Ortega y Gasset.

"The enthusiasm (absorbing or controlling possession of the mind by any interest or pursuit) is needed before breaking the milestone and not after." Sergio Escutia, on Lukas Verzbicas' subdued reaction to breaking 4 minutes in the mile.

2fast,

How often do you do brick workouts? If your legs are not used to running after a long bike, your time will suffer. Also, do you ride a steep geometry bike? I found that my run times improved off the bike when I went to a tt bike with a forward position. Also, be sure to spin up to a nice high cadance in the last 3 miles of the bike to get those legs full of blood and warmed up for running.

Hydration would be my next topic, I found that if I did not throw water over my head at each aid station I heated up too much and lost time as a result. When you feel dehydrated it's too late, you are already in the red zone when the feelings hit.

Run style is my last thought. When tired, you usually go back to old habits, most of them bad ones. Heel striking on the landing, hard push off's and not much lift to the heel. I recently started focusing on the Chi Running method and it has been successful in getting my times down and conserving my energy as well as stopping an ITB problem that gave me issues all last year.

That being said, I usually lose about 1 min/mile off my strictly running pace during a 1/2 IM, but it's coming down each time I go out.

Good Luck, Karma

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

I agree with you up to a point. My 2:10 (I've done far worse) HIM run was in a race where I monitored my effort on the bike with a HRM.

Some of the ?'s I would ask are How long is your long run, how hard did you bike, what is your bike volume what is your run volume, what is your run and bike frequency? Nutrition during the late stages of the bike and early stages of the marathon? What was your opening 3k and 5k split compared to the rest of the run? In reality most people undertrain the run. It's really hard to fake a half marathon after riding 56miles. It's much easier to fake 56 miles of hard riding. If you fake the bike faking the run becomes more diffucult.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I don't know what "normal" but my HIM run is typically about 8% slower than stand-alone time and I'm sure there are folks that get even closer.

BIKE MORE. alot more. consider upping your cycling miles by 50% - at least.

and run off the bike 1 or 2 times per week. not long, even a nice quick 3 miles after a hard 50mile bike helps -- lots. i do intervals....10mi hard on the bike...2 miles on the track...and then back on the bike....repeat 3X...

i run a low 1.20 1/2...and a low 1.30 1/2IM race pace. if i biked more it would be only a few minute difference...IMO.

have fun.

My guess... nutrition/hydration. I'm a 1:36 stand-alone HM. My first time at Ralph's was a 2:05 run. Lot's of walking and when I'd run, the heart rate would shoot up, breathing out of control.

Second time at Ralph's, much more hydration (about three tall bottles of Powerbar Endurance) and a Powerbar at 40 miles on the bike. My first lap split (6.5 miles) was 46 minutes. Unfortunately, my knee started stabbing with pain so I quit. But I was full of energy, not tired at all. Bummer, but I was satisfied that I had nutrition correct.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

what tristan said. more bricks. doesn't have to be anything long and hard all the time - just a few EZ miles after any long ride will help. I think that really helps the develop the muscle memory you need.

Remember (someone posted this once) - It's not about being able to run fast - it's about being able to run fast off the bike.

Here's a brick workout that I picked up last year that I think helped me alot...

15 min EZ ride then repeat the following 5-7 times

1 mile tempo run followed immediately by a 15 min ride @~80% (stay aerobic the whole time, but push the run a little more).

good luck!

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"Race day is a celebration of your training"

I agree with Desert Dude most people are undertrained for the run. As stated, what kind of miles are you logging and are you doing long brick workouts? Knowing that will give you some sort of baseline to go off of. I used to have a coach that said if you want to race 3 miles (5K's) you gotta be able to push yourself for 5 (8K). I've tried to incorporate that philosophy into my run training and have found that I race my best 10k's when I'm fit enough to run a 1/2 marathon.

When I was in my 20's I'd regularly run 1:20-1:25 for an open half but I could never crack 1:29 for a 1/2 IM run split and usually I was about a full minute slower per mile. My friend's open 1/2 PR is 1:15 and he popped off a 1:17 run at the 1/2 Vineman in July a few years back because of all the base he had from running the Boston Marathon in April, so he claimed.

Miguel in the 'No...El Tribato

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Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Here's a brick workout that I picked up last year that I think helped me alot...

15 min EZ ride then repeat the following 5-7 times

1 mile tempo run followed immediately by a 15 min ride @~80% (stay aerobic the whole time, but push the run a little more).


I need to try this 1 -- nice suggestion. Sounds painful...but doable. t