I tend to agree with Slowman on this one. The guys pushing the limits in the early to mid 80's just did it cause it was there. They beat down the trail on which today's Ironman athletes followed. Everything from your Friday 4000 m swim, Sat 120 mile ride followed by 30 min transition run and Sunday 2.5 hour run, was invented by trial and error by the big 4, Pigg, Souza and others from that era.

Often, these guys would train like pro cyclists, run like Olympic marathoners and swim 40,000m all in the same way. That's not to say that this is the way to go, but it was by pushing their personal limits and one another that they found out what worked and what did not. Ironman times quickly dropped from 10 to 9 to 8:30 to sub 8:10....and these guys were banging out these times on equipment that your local 14.5 hour Ironman age grouper is using today (and usually old HED CX or Zipp 440's are not good enough for the same 14.5 hour crowd...).

Lots of the guys I see today are scared to do volume and/or intensity. You just need to do it at the right time at the right intensity in the right quanitities that your body has adapted to. Like Tim DeBoom says, it takes many years of training to train for an Ironman. Piling on mega bike or mega run weeks every so often is one of the ingredients that gets you there.

"I was only trying to convey that I see training as a long-term process, where there are no short-cuts. Some people believe that through "idiot-epic" training they can have their short-cut to success. That's not how things work."

Once again, SAC...true enough. I don't think anyone here thinks that the stuff we are discussing is a panacea for poor overall training plan. And I'm certainly not going to PRESCRIBE these sorts of things for any of the athletes I deal with. I guess it falls more in the "I'm not going to freak out" when they come tell me they hammered out some freakshow training session. As Slowman said, these things just happened...and, frankly, I think they only tend to happen among the people on the pointy end of the pack...

I'm not buying a lot of what's been said here, especially all the stuff about there not being many who are willing to train that much/hard. I can assure you, if I thought an extra hour or 10 hours would help me, I'd be on it. I'd do 20-30hrs a week. As it is, I chop my plans down routinely as 15 hr weeks just seem to flame me out.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

if that can make you feel better...Olaf Sabatschus trains at best 20hrs a week when he is in germany, then comes to El Paso, and our big weeks are at 30hrs...sure, I can't say much, but he won Brazil for the second time in a row, has 3 top 10 in Kona, 3 podiums in Zofingen...

he tried the super heavy volume and the only result was injury, or sickness.

The difference probably is that he improves on those hours (or a fraction of even that), while I seem to go nowhere on anything I try! :-) No, wait, that's :-(

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

maybe you're not doing the right thing for you...
what is a typical week for you? what do you feel good at? not so good at?
(pm if you want)

[quote]the best tri coach in the world would[/quote]

Who would you consider the best? I'm thinking of a certain ex-pat Aussie...?

if this ex-pat aussie is in switzerland now, brentl (I think) has mentioned him in the past, and I doubt very much he would be brent's choice of best coach...

Yep, that's him.
Saw him speak last year. I'm sold.
Made my best gains ever after applying some of his tips.
Purely by athlete results, you'd have to say he is the best.

Ahhh...that brings back memories! When I first came to Vancouver back in 1990 a group of us would do the regular weekend donut ride. Back then there was 3 donut stores along a 100 mile route. We would stop at each one. Usually the guy that ate the Eclaire would suffer later on down the road.

Now there is a donut shop at every corner. That would make for one hell of a ride!!! ;)

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Adrian in Vancouver

I didn't see it posted. Great Thread.



Bassey

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fka: bassman

After the swim, I'm a fish outta water.

...are you guys talking about Brent Sutton...sure gets lots of good results, and also lots of "retirees" from his stable at a fairly young age :-). Gotta say that those guys aren't afraid to pile on intensity and volume though !

I think Slowman was referring to a more spontaneous form of training where guys push one another's limits from time to time and elevate their limits and game.

brett...

I've got to believe you're missing something in your equation if 15 hour weeks "flame (you) out." Probably sleep. Maybe diet. Something... 15 hours a week just isn't that much, especially with 3 sports and strength training.

That is, if you've been training more than a couple of years...

Do you have a book you've read on the guy? Do share, would you? Thanks

If ya gotta have an athletic idol, he's up there.

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Josef
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blog

Or I just don't adapt like many of the names listed above. Those at the top of the sport are clearly genetically gifted. I can add endurance by gritting out more and longer stuff, just not speed/power.

Diet's excellent, and I sleep until I wake up (7hrs+ avg).

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

that's the one