I've swam with a few groups in a few different states. Maybe I can offer a bit of a different point of view. That said, I'm closer to the pointy end of the speed range & tend to be in the fast lane. (Please don't take that as bragging, just as reference. I want the yardage as much/more than the stroke critique.) I've seen both kinds of coaches in different groups - the kind that's constantly watching form & critiquing (across all abilities, but much moreso to the slower lanes), that's actually the kind I swim with now. But I've had the coach that also just sits & watches (if that), giving only minimal advice when requested and/or not hardly paying attention at all.

I don't have to tell you which breeds the better program & better team, you're experiencing it. I've been pleasantly surprised when the coaches have given feedback in our lanes as well on a somewhat consistent basis (even if they are repeating themselves...ha!). I definitely feel like I get my money's worth. For reference - sometimes we have 8 lanes (SCY) of swimmers ranging from 2-3 to 5 or more in a lane. Other times (LCM) we have 4 lanes that have from 5 to upwards of 10 in each lane. We do have smaller practices too, though most are probably around 20+ people. If you're paying money to be coached then a coach should be on-deck, present & providing feedback. Now, if they're specifically working with a lane or individuals, then it's not always going to be even attention...but it sounds like you're definitely not getting enough.

I would probably be ok with your situation - assuming if I had an issue they would be willing to work with me, watch me & provide feedback while swimming. But I think there's a much bigger impact when the coaches are more engaged. Everyone seems to swim better, or progress quicker, from what I can tell.

Hope that helps some?

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AW

I swim with a few different masters teams, they run the gamut from coached to board. Some coaches offer technique advice, some set up lanes so that the fast people are at one end of the pool etc, start the sets, give times, etc. Some offer technique advice only, and only if asked. It's really team dependent. I think if there are enough people who want a good team/good coach, then they need to make that known. Some people only want to show up and be able to swim. I prefer the more organized, much like a real swim team, but i know not everyone wants that.

IMTrivet......I don't have experience with Masters Coaching (even though that is my age group :( ) but it sounds like you had a fairly good relationship with the coach before the increase in numbers. Would you feel comfortable speaking to the original coach one on one and asking if he would observe and give feedback once per week?? I don't know if this would work for you, but maybe he doesn't realise how much you valued his feedback before.

I hope it works out for you.

Agree ... I would just ask for more coaching from this coach. Then, follow their advice. You have to do both.

Having done this, if it does not work for you, go find another masters program.

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Such a Bad Runner

I only have experience with one group, but it is much more hands on than what you describe. Coach on deck actively describing workout and what we are focusing on. Corrections and feedback offered to pretty much everyone though not evenly. We are a pretty consistent group, so the coach knows everyone and what we are training for or if we are training for anything at all. Head coach has generally plotted out the year so we have periods of drill, periods of swim, periods of relative rest. Some days the coach is in the water with us. A few days she is absent and we get a written workout. It is not unusual for someone to step up and lead the workout on those days.

I feel so spoiled thinking about it.

I would ask for more feedback from both the coach and the head coach and see if the situation changes. Are other swimmers missing the feedback as well? Maybe hearing it from you and some other people of different ability levels will make a difference. Is the new coach shy? New at coaching? He may just need to know what you guys want. Is it hard to hear where you swim? Do people talk too much? Dominate the coaches' time if given the chance? Think if there has been some change in the dynamics of the group as more people were added.

In my experience the masters coach runs the workout. There may be some feed back, but mostly its just telling us what we're doing and giving us the send offs.

I had a separate stroke coach.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Thank you all so far for the feedback.

This morning’s practice was light—only 12 swimmers—and was another post-the-workout-and-disappear. >;-( Ironically, I ran into a teammate last night, and he expressed my exact frustration and concerns about the change in dynamic. He swims with another group as well, so he has another perspective. Thus, I was pleasantly surprised to see now that it’s not just me.

Lreichman: How you described your group is exactly how our practices were run for a long time. So that’s why I miss it so much (and was spoiled!?). There haven’t been any other major changes in dynamics. It is a very quiet pool (outdoors) with indoor pool a few steps away where the newbies/warmbloods swim. And that was another excuse from our Director—that the beginners needed more coaching than did those of us with experience, so our coach has been pulled away inside with them much of practice. But my feeling is, really... after almost a year, if they aren’t ready to share the coach (and if the coach isn’t ready to make them swim with the rest of the group or let us have the majority of her attention back), then they need to get private lessons!

The second coach may be a little shy...but he is a very experienced and decorated swimmer, and—really, if your job is a coach—you’re going to have to TALK to people, so shyness isn’t an excuse. He’s truly just bored IMHO.

Not to toot my own horn... but I’ve been one of the few to consistently show up to every practice with this team for the last several years. It is almost a running joke. Only times I’ve missed are the day after a race, travel, or severe illness. So my coach knows me well and knows how much I value and need feedback. Now I see I’m not alone at least.
In light of the feedback so far and after I talk to some of my teammates, I think I will go ahead and plan to address our coach directly. I'm just not the type to gripe...so it's hard taking that step. :-/

Hi-

To give you some perspective as a masters coach. I coach a small group that is part of a bigger program- we have AM, noon and PM practices, and the PM practices I coach tend to be the smallest, with a huge range in abilities. I find I spend the majority of the time watching the more beginning swimmers, the newest swimmers to the group, and the ones who ask for it most (squeaky wheel gets the grease).

I'm not excusing your coach's behavior at all BUT, the kind of swimmer you are- consistent, regular, decent speed, experience, knows the drill, does her own thing- those are the kind that unfortunately get neglected the most in my group as well. Sometimes I think that those types of swimmers don't want my random advice, and they are just there for a good workout and to tune out life. When they ask me I'm always surprised, but I realize I've been neglecting them in favor of the swimmers who really need the help.

You can be pushy- in fact, why don't you ask your coach to film you (if you have a camera) and then watch it together? This is probably the most effective way to learn what you are doing wrong/right, provided your coach knows what he's talking about.

I've also coached Master's (2 years now) and it's a fine line. I have the people who don't really want me to tell them what's up with their stroke, or didn't take me seriously and just kind of went with their own thing. Then I have the folks who are discuss the workout and the stroke and the specifics, even the ones who've been swimming for quite some time. But the thing I like the most is when I recieve as much feedback as I'm giving. And questions. And discussions. I hate the quiet ones, to be honest, they make me feel a little worthless. (I went from coaching age group to masters, so that might be part of my oversharing tendencies.) I feel like you're paying them to be there, in a roundabout way, so don't hesitate to talk with them.
PS, Decorated swimmers don't always make the best coaches. It helps if you're familiar with competition and the strokes, but I've found the best coaches to be mortals, had to learn the strokes and struggle just like I was doing.
Good luck!

I'm always struck with wonder and envy when I hear about all the masters swim programs that do offer help with stroke/technique.

The one that is convenient to me has never been like that. There is a culture among the coaches of just barking orders and running the workout. When I have, assertively, asked for stroke advice, I have found the coaches to be harried and the stroke advice to be not very understandable or useful. Some coaches want to help, but they are just not very skilled at either noticing the real problem or explaining its solution in a way that your average swimmer can understand.

Granted, the coaches in my masters' program have a lot of people to watch (~30) and it's not like they are handsomely paid. It's more like stipended volunteer work for them.

Paying for some one-on-one sessions with a couple of truly good coaches is what has really helped me. The only reason to go to my masters swim program now is if my work pattern dictates an early-morning or late-evening swim, when a person has to do masters to get access to the pool at all. It's also good for workout variety.

- Oleander

Any Masters have ever swam, the coach just gives the workout and explains it . Stroke development is separate, unfortunately, in the groups I've seen.

Just reading the USMS magazine I've seen that some coaches include stroke development , but it has not happened in any groups I've experienced.

I'm a coach for a masters club (in Australia), and also a swimmer... if you have a coach, and you're paying for a coach then you should get coaching... if you want a parrot to give you a program and a lifeguard then why pay for a coach? i would agree with the suggestions to having a word to your coach - who should know or make efforts to get to know the club swimmers as to who wants feedback and who doesn't etc. If you could quietly tell them that you have some feedback to give and would like them to take it on board for consideration and then let them know plainly and simply what you are missing from your program in a logical and fair way, they should be able to integrate that feedback in future and know that you're looking for some more input.
When i'm coaching i try to ask swimmers if they want feedback or if they mind if i give them some advice before just dishing it out.. although sometimes my mouth runs off without my brain and i'm explaining things to a blank stare! And occasionally i separate the squad into those who want to practice certain skills and those who just want the workout. that way i can focus on people who want to hear what i have to say and simply parrot a work=out to the rest.... your coach might need some gentle prodding to be a bit more interactive but, again, if you're paying them for their time and skills then they should be providing active coaching.
be brave, provide constructive feedback and hopefully you'll get the benefits.
good luck.
noodlecat77 :)

That is funny. When I left for my (first) Ironman, my coach didn't even say good luck. When I got back he didn't even ask how it went. I didn't take it personally, I figured if that is the kind of coach they want to be, it's more of a reflection on them. I swim all 4 strokes too.