Seat too high (am I right Paulo?)

Other then that the position looks good.

damn fine workout room. good job!

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I based my seat height on TTB and Going Long's suggestions of being able to just touch your heel to your pedal when your leg is extended at it's furthest point (slightly past 6 o'clock) and on the whole seat height = (BB to saddle distance) * .883. Those two things actually end up being almost the same for me. To achieve this, I actually had to move my seat down quite a bit - at least an inch from where it is now. I'd like to measure angles and what not, but I don't own a protractor. Any volunteers? :)

You'll see all those spacers on the top of my steerer tube there. Those all used to be under my stem, so that was moved as well.

Not sure if I should worry about the curve in my back or not? I was also debating on if this bike was even the right size for me or if I should be on something smaller (I'm 5'8.5" on a 54 w/ a 31" inseam)? The bike right now as a 90 mm stem on it and the amount of seat post that is showing seems awfully short compared to other pictures of bikes that I've seen out there. Is that bad? I'm guessing if I were on a smaller size, I could have a different stem length and a relatively higher seat post and it would still put me in the same position. But obviously, the whole bike would be smaller which I'm guessing affects handling? I'm not sure if it would be for better or for worse though. Would be interested in hearing fitters opinions on this one.

As for the workout room, it's actually my living room. My bike is just sitting where my couch usually goes (and hides all that junk behind me which is why I haven't cleaned it up yet :) ).

Thanks for the feedback!

good pix. first you should have a professional fit done for sure. BUT, just by looking at the pix i can see the following-but, do have a fit done by soemone face to face.



-Your heel should be horizontal when at the bottom for measuring, thus you're seat is probably a tad too high

-you actually might be too forward as if you draw a line straight down from the ear it should bisect the elbow- you are forward of that (i was too at one point and moved back)

that is really all i see. if you are comfortable and fast then just keep it and have fun. BUT, THE BIG RULE IS- IF YOU CAN'T HOLD THE POSITION, IT DOESN'T MEAN SQUAT!

RACE HARD!

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Lee Zohlman, Lead Coach/President
BodyZen Multi Sport Coaching
http://www.bodyzen.com

You look pretty good - saddle maybe a bit on the high side. My only comment is that you're incredibly far forward (I'm guessing saddle to bb is + 3-5 cm). Are you able to put out/sustain any power in that position?

Could you be on a smaller bike, probably. Would it make much difference, not likely. If I were starting you from scratch, I would put you on the smaller frame. But, with the 90 mm stem, you are in a pretty good spot. Your seat may be a touch high, but it is likely your foot is in a different position while riding than while static. Go by what feels right and is at a level that your hips don't rock side to side. I like the position of your arms, I'm not familiar with the ears over the elbow someone else mentioned. It seems to me that if the plumb line from your ear bisected your elbow, then you couldn't have a 90 degree angle at the shoulder or the elbow. Where it is, it is supporting your torso weight on your skeleton rather than your muscles. If you can stay there comfortably for your race distance, then don't touch it.

I was fit by a professional before, although he mainly just eyeballed me and called me good to go. He didn't take any measurements or anything like that. He moved my seat around and adjusted my stem and said if I had problems after that to come back and we could address them. That said, this was all done at what is probably the most reputable tri shop in town so I don't know where else I'd go unless I made a trip out of it.

When you say my heel should be horizontal when measuring, I'm assuming you're talking about the Friel test? Or is that what I should aim for when taking pictures and asking for a critique?

It is possible, as mentioned below, that I'm riding too far forward. But that's probably what I'm used to be now. I pretty much rode that steep all last year. I could try moving a little more slack and see how that changes things, though. It's early enough in the season. I'm more less comfortable... not that fast (but usually top 1/4 - 1/3 AG), but working on it. ;)

Indeed, I am very far forward. My seatpost is flipped forward and my Azoto is nearly all the way pushed forward as it can go. Last time I calculated using Slowman's charts (the older ones before he updated), I think I was riding someplace around 82 degrees!

I haven't tried moving myself back yet, but would be open to it if there is such a thing as too steep. I rode last season like this and it worked. It was my first season of triathlon, but I averaged just under 21 MPH at my two 1/2s and just under 19 MPH at IM Wisconsin. It does have me wondering if I could put out more power if I moved farther back though? Anyone else ride this steep?

Moving back would probably require a shorter stem and maybe putting some of those spacers back? I'm not the most flexible person in the world, so I think riding that steep helps in that regard.

Thanks for the feedback!

not sure what the Friel test is but to elaborate on my points i meant that when your heel is in a static position to measure it shoud be horizontal. some fitters will say just to leave it whereever it falls but i like my method and it does changes the angle a few degrees whaen measuring the knee with the goniometer. as well, yes if yo umoved back you will not have the 90 degree bend in the elbow but the safe zone is 90-110 degrees for the elbow. who knows, you might be able to put out more power set back a tad. i do concur with the previous comment, if you're comfortable then that plays a big factor in this game. if you get a chance to get a fitter who uses some good measuring devices then do it. there are good fitters all around. hope all this helps.

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Lee Zohlman, Lead Coach/President
BodyZen Multi Sport Coaching
http://www.bodyzen.com

How would being on a smaller bike affect handling? I'm guessing that things would change by virtue of the overall wheelbase decreasing? Would that make things more "twitchy" so to speak? Just curious.

Interesting that everyone has noted that I may be a tad high AND that I was riding a full inch+ higher than this before. Not that I doubt what you guys are saying... more than I can't believe how much I lowered my saddle and that I still might be high.

I'm pretty comfortable up front. My issues surrounding comfort right now are mostly due to the fact that I hadn't been riding enough over the winter (i.e. stiff neck, chaffing, etc.) Thanks!!

The "Friel test" is just what I called the way TTB describes saddle height. Basically it says that when sitting on your saddle with your leg fully extended and farthest away from you in the pedal stroke, your heel should be able to touch your pedal. I guess when you do that and account that your cleat is mounted to the ball of your foot and there is some rise from the cleat itself, that'll give you just the amount of space needed for you to pedal. This, of course, is a very crude estimate since it doesn't account for where (fore or aft) exactly your cleat is mounted or what kind of pedal you use, but it's a starting point. I wasn't anywhere close to being able to touch my heel without really stretching out my calf and tilting my hip down on that side.

I may play around with moving my seat back. Seems like a few of you think that I may be able to generate more power that way. It may also have me a little more on my sit bones on the saddle which could be more comfortable in longer races? I might as well try it and see how I like it while I'm messing around with my position anyway.

Thanks!

A smaller frame would actually handle slower. The stem would be longer and you would be further back in relation to the bb. If you are comfortable, then there is very little to change. Period. As close as you are, it is impossible to say for sure whether your seat is too high, static pictures just aren't good enough. On the front end, I think your angles are spot on. With the upper arm nearly vertical, you're structurally supporting your upper body rather than muscularly, and that is the key to a relaxed aero position.

Saddle is on the high side and you're a bit too far forward. I would slide back saddle, armrests and extensions maybe as much as 2cm.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Wow. I think you look great. Very good. cut 1 cm off the tips of your aerobars so you can reach your shifters maybe.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Good point. Totally didn't think of that. I knew I'd need a longer stem, but didn't think of what it would do to my seat relative to my BB. And with the seat flipped around and pushed all the way forward on the rails, there is no way I'd be able to get where I'm at right now on a smaller frame (although I may toy around with pushing my seat back a little... we'll see). Thanks!

I think I'll take measurements of where I'm at now and experiment with moving stuff back this week sometime. I don't know if a week worth of riding on the CT will give me enough feedback of how the two positions differ. I do know that when I tried putting a road bike on my CT a few weeks ago, it felt like I couldn't generate any power at all. I'm guessing my muscles may be used to riding like that now and that it'd take time to ride more slack. Although I don't know if that's really necessary in the long run? I think I'll post a seperate thread on that, though.

Thanks, Tom. I was hoping you'd chime in with your thoughts. :)

I didn't even think about cutting off the ends of my aerobars. I'm glad that you mentioned it though, because I do have to lift my forearm off my pads to reach my shifters. I have the VisionTech carbon pro bars. Is it relatively easy to cut carbon? Or do you need special tools to do so?

Thanks!!!

One week won't be enough, you're right. The fact that you didn't feel powerful on a road bike might be a hint that you're a bit forward and not engaging your glutes and hamstrings, those are highlighted when you're in a road position.



Also the next pictures you post, can you put a mark on the place where your greater trochanter is? That is very helpful when measuring angles.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com