I obviously worded this wrong. Your right this was Armstrongs fault for getting to close, he knows what can happen. My point was that out of bad came good, I would hope the kid or any fan would feel that they would rather not be any part of an accident that may change, invoke or alter the racers mindset or outcome.

It was certainly not Ullrich's decision alone to sit up - in fact, it wasn't much of a decison at all. It was expected, and any member of the peloton who had not done the same would have faced serious repercussions.

As for living off the tempo of men in second and third position (Ullrich and Vini) when you are behind them in GC, that is simply the norm. Would it have been more colourful, classier, and shown more panache if they had flown up the mountain ahead of Ullrich? Of course. Given Ullrich's pace, I suspect that would have been difficult, to say the least.

Nothing in their actions warrants relegating the orange jersey to the bottom of the closet.

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TonyG

What is Enoch Root?

[reply]Actually, I do remember that Indurain was a very humble champion. And I know Indurain never complained. about anything. ever. in my mind, he was probably the greatest Grand Tour rider ever (except, of course, Merckx, but more of a gentleman)

Normally, when a yellow jersey contender gives a stage victory to another rider, it is as a "thank you" for helping said contender gain time. ie, a little something for the effort. In '94, Bruyneel was only hanging on. Indurain never tried to drop him, because doing so would have cost him time, and anyhow the main purpose of the attack was to intimidate his main rivals. This was not out of sportsmanship, it was out of priorities, time vs stage win. Indurain did not give the victory to Bruyneel. He just had no sprint left.[/reply]

You are right, Indurain did not give the stage to Bruyneel. In fact, although Indurain never complained, he did that day. He or is DS called it a cheap shot. That said, I'm with Bruyneel on this one, it's called tactics. If you go on a breakaway, you go with the guy who needs the time difference and then you nick the stage. It would have been nicer to do some work, but maybe he couldn't or didn't want to, either way it's perfectly acceptable to do what he did.

If Indurain didn't like it he should have dropped Bruyneel or sat up. He did neither, and lost the stage.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

But when they are trying to get on a team next year second looks better than 4th or 5th.

I don't think Lance was patting that rider on the back--he was letting him know which side he was on. The rider looked confused because Lance was coming at him so fast.

Tony and Gerard (in that sequence)...

Tony -- I later had a different, somewhat more generous, musing on why Mayo and Zubeldia attacked at the very end to try to grab those bonus seconds for 2nd (12") and third (8").

Euskatel currently lies second in the team competition (behind CSC). If I remember correctly, the winner of that competition not only gets bragging rights within Spain (over Kelme, Ibanesto, ONCE), but far more importantly, an automatic invite to the 2004 Tour. This, for a "bubble" team like Euskatel-Euskadi, is a HUGE carrot.

On the day, E-E nearly halved their deficit on CSC, given that the scoring is calucualted on the times posted by your first 3 riders. So even though they meant little in the individual GC, these ticks were important. Thanks for working me through this, 'cause I do kinda like that jersey. :-)

PS to Gerard: solved that mystery problem I wrote you about months ago about the perceived balky shifting into the 11 on the P3 while using a 57 -- you were right (as you usually are). It was actually nothing more complicated than a slightly-too-thick lock ring -- nothing at all to do with extreme "drop" or short chain line.

And FWIW, your bike when undefeated again here in NJ this year -- see for example Sandy Hook TT at http://www.truesport.com/...results/sandytt.html

Didn't much mind it being beaten by the only pro in that 180 racer field, especially since he then borrowed it to race on himself at the U.S. Espoirs Nationals earlier this month). :-)

-- Richard B.

holy crap! you mean to tell me there's someone here besides me that's getting tired of seeing lance win every year?! (not that he doesn't deserve it mind you, but just the same, it's getting kind of old seeing him whip everyone's butt year after year). at least this year it's been a bit closer though.

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____________________________________________________________
"I'm happy when life's good,
and when it's bad I cry.
I've got values but I don't know how or why."
- The Who

[reply] I don't think Lance was patting that rider on the back--he was letting him know which side he was on. The rider looked confused because Lance was coming at him so fast.[/reply]

Maybe he thought "Eddy is not going to rip me apart again like he did after LBL for not acknowledging Axel's breakaway, I'd better show some admiration for this poor boy with his triple crankset trying to conquer a mountain made for real men" or something like it. Though I have to say, Chavanel did not fall apart after being caught and finished the stage quite well.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

 "not unless this current squad demonstrates more nobility and larger cajones."

I noticed that spelling mistake in this forum before, but did not bother to correct. For the sake of the future posts, let's try and correct it. In Spanish, "cajon" - singular - means drawer, and "cajones" - plural - means drawers. I suspect you are talking about "cojones" which is that part of the men anatomy that we would rather not have stuck in a drawer!

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[pink]I don’t use pink font[/pink]

actually, he was patting him. Sylvain Chavanel of La Boulangere, said that when Lance went by, he gave a pat and had a "good job look".

the way it's described by chavanel seems like he was thinking "oh man, it's lance himself", like a kid seeing his idol. pretty cool

The guys on Eurosport said that when Lance passed him he said something like 'Well Done' to Chavanel (and I think Chavanel confirmed it later on after the stage).

Thanks -- should probably have stuck with "huevos". :-)

Nothing wrong with that one. You could also have used "bolas" or "partes", but I must admit that "cojones" is still my favorite one.