TRAIN FASTER.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

In highschool I was a sub 18 5k. Not supper fast, but intervals were the key. Need leg turn over and good lungs. I do not do sprint tris due to my lack of leg speed, but 5k running is tuff. I would start with setting a goal time and break down to the 1/4 times. I like to use this to set my race pace. But your hard intervals will need to be faster than race pace. I suggest 1/2 mile intervals too. I also find doing running time trials help me set mini goals and helps me stay motivated.

My old coach said that you know your interval is good if want to puke afterwards.

Most importantly, go to the track. Do 8 x 400 with 90 seconds rest between each. Keep track of your times. Come back a week later and do 9 x 400...keep working to go consistantly faster with each interval. The next week max it out at 10 x 400 and I bet your faster if you work hard.

DO YOU LIKE TO EVEN PACE OR US AN EXCELERATED TOWARDS THE END. WHICH IS BETTER

When doing intervals I would watch out for comparing times in each week's workout, you want to see a trend of faster repeats over time not necessarily every week. Do quarter repeats at about 3k speed or faster (work to 10 or more). Doing mile repeats will also help, these should be done a little faster than race pace for your 5k (do about 3-5).
Going for a faster 5k time, in your situation, does not mean you need to work on your leg speed too much. FIrst you have to work on your strength and overall speed. Doing the repeats at a consistent speed will help you feel more comfortable at this faster speed so in a race you are more relaxed and able to keep an even pace.
you must also work on your strength and endurance during your longer runs. Try to speed up a little on your longer runs (keep easy days easy) and maybe try doing a tempo run instead of one of your workouts. Without the endurance you are not going to be able to keep the pace you are working on during you workouts in a race.
Finally I would try to mix up your workout by running a short distance run before you workout and then seeing how you do. Run a little less than your normal shorter run of the week at a fairly good pace and then try to do one of your workouts or a modified one. You will see this will help you in the later part of a race when you start to break down. This workout will help you build a better base of strength while getting in speed training as well.
hope that helps
Nick

I've stuggled with no speed also when I ran. My fastest 5km ever was during an 8km cross country race, and my 5km PR is only 4 seconds faster than my 5 km split in an open 10km.

The toughest speed workout we used to do were 24 x 200M on the track and 100,200,400,800,1600,800,400,200,100M ladders. Plyometrics and oddly enough jumping rope were standard practice for our middle distance crew (800, 1500,1600M) Check into some middle distance workouts to pick up your 5km speed over your 13.1 mile pace.

Good Luck,
-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Do more base work. I am as fast now as I was in college and I am doing almost no speedwork, just tons of base as prep for a marathon. I also do weights 2 - 3 times a week

I just ran a 9:33 3000m indoors (~10:18 2 mile) on an undersized track (172 m) without spikes as part of a 55 mile week. Last time I ran this fast I was doing track workouts like 20 x 400m in 75 sec with 60 sec rest, but only like 40 miles a week.

Last summer I ran a 16:37 5K again, in the midst of base work for a HIM, with no taper.

The more endurance I do the faster I get. I hardly do intervals. My only speed work consists of hills repeats at tempo pace and various tempo intervals (4 x 6-10 minutes at tempo pace).

It has taken me a long time to realize that more base will make you faster than more speed.

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"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."

You will find some good pointers here:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...tml#Anchor-TWO-49575

and there:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/....html&text=aging

(I personally had very good results with the 8 week plan laid out under the speedwork paragraph)

[reply] Check into some middle distance workouts to pick up your 5km speed over your 13.1 mile pace.

Good Luck,
-SD[/reply]

Ding, Ding, Ding - we have a winner. Implement gradually due to risk of injury.

GREAT ADVICE THANKS

THANK YOU EVERYYHING IS AVAILABLE ON THIS SITE

No kidding. Wait until you discover the hottie thread!

Racing may be the best way: Do a 5K every weekend!

I'm interested in Tri Yoda's plan; it calls for lots of mileage, running 6 days a week, lots of hills, etc. But you can also become faster by hitting the track:

Here's a simple plan: Make sure you are at 20+ miles a week and comfy with running some uptempo near-race pace stuff before you try this:

Warm up at least 10 min.; Start at 3 or 4X800s, add one every week and move up to 6X800s; cool down 10 min. Either do them really fast (with more rest) or at tempo pace with less rest. Really fast would be 30 sec. faster than 5-10K race pace; but rest 3 min. (very easy 400 jog); Tempo pace would be at 5-10K race pace but with much less rest (70-80 sec.; 200 jog) ... This is very Runners World/cookie cutter, but if you do this once a week for 3 weeks, take a week off, then do it again for 3 weeks, you will get faster. I do something like this April-June and race well all summer.

There are many ways to skin this cat: Hills (bust you lungs, not you legs); Tempo runs; 30-30s (which I think are 30 sec. very hard, 30 sec. easy in the middle or end of a run); shorter intervals work too, but I'm not sold on that. I think 400s are worthless unless you are a miler. Good luck!

I have not been able to make myself go hard enough to puke in about 15 years.

Look for posts by iron_mike. He posted a bunch of info about a week ago on the subject of speed. I don't want to misquote, but basically the theory is that high intensity intervals are the way forward. You will build both endurance and speed without doing anything longer than intervals of about 1000m. There is a lot of research to back this up as well. Anyway, search his posts.

THAT IS GREAT INFO
THANKS

I have to agree with Tri-Yoda. More base work/aerobic endurance is the key. I have found my speed in all distances above 5K will improve more with more base work than with intervals. An Olympic distance 10K isn't really that speedy if you just hammered for an hour on the bike. Even a sprint distance 5K is more like a 10-miler or half marathon in terms of aerobic requirements.

If you want to run a stand alone 5K then I would agree you need to go to the track, but for most people they just need more miles--cycling and running--to go faster at just about any triathlon distance.

You will see some improvement for a while from going to the track, but it will plateau quickly and then the only thing you can do is increase your aerobic efficiency via more base work.

Chad

There is more merit to this approach than people realize. 5k is a tough race to "learn" to race. Pacing is critical. Also after 2 miles just keep pushing. It is not going to hurt any worse than it does by then.

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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

I could not disagree more. 400's are essential in my opinion and have always worked well for me at making me faster. I think where 400's are great because you can really focus on form whereas with the longer intervals there is a tendency to fall apart once you start to become lactate saturated.

I agree with your point about 2 ways of running the intervals. I sometimes run the 400's with a 1 minute (or slightly less) recovery and other times I will take 2 minutes off (making sure I am completely recovered before the next one).

400's with a short recovery is a fantastic way to raise your anaerobic threshold.

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Adrian in Vancouver

Don't forget mileage. All the 400 reps in the world won't help if you don't have a good aerobic base. The top 5000m runners in the world train exactly like marathon runners in almost every aspect except for fast track stuff.

The fastest way to get faster is to run more. If you currently run 50 mpw, try 70mpw for a month or two and see how quickly your 5K and 10K times come down. Once you have the base then you can sharpen the point on the track with all the 400s you can handle.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I agree. I have been putting in 82-87 km/week for the past 6 weeks and I am really beginning to notice big changes. In the past I would only do about 35km/week. When I was doing 35 km/week I ran as fast as a 34 minute 10k and a 16'40" 5k but the event would drain me for days on end - as would interval training sessions. Now I can rattle off a track workout and not only is my recovery faster but every interval feels more "relaxed". I am really optimistic about the running this summer following this program. I will likely increase the weekly mileage to about 100km/week but I expect the increase in mileage to come mainly from an increase in steady state pace rather than more time training.

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Adrian in Vancouver