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Hopping at fast cadence
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Okay, I've been riding for some time, but recently I have been doing Spinervals to combat boredom and malaise brought on by the winter. I rather enjoy them, but there is one aspect of them that I am having a difficult time mastering: the superspin.

They define the superspin as spinning at an rpm above 120.

I can do it, but I bounce like I'm riding a horse at anything above 110. I'm built for power, but I still should be able to do this without bruising my butt.

What is the secret? I know that it is my technique, but nothing seems to be working to remedy this.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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The secret is to start at 90-100 rpm and slowly build up the cadence until you feel your a... I mean, the bouncing. Once you feel it you try to control it while increasing the cadence even more slowly. Eventually from session to session you'll be able to achieve higher rpms.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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Try to concentrate on keeping your butt on the seat, and grip the handlebars tightly. This works for me on a road bike, but I've never ridden a tri-bike so that might be more difficult.

edit: do what paulo said
Last edited by: freestyle: Feb 11, 05 8:56
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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Your saddle is probably too high. If not (and you're certain), focus on pulling back and up, and don't even try pushing down, on the pedals.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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Muscle mass and built for power has nothing to do with it. It is a learned skill. My racing buddy is a linebacker size guy with HUGE legs. He can spin at 120 all day. He has also spent a great deal of time working it.

Spin ups. Start at 80 or RPM's. Slowly build up your speed about 1 rpm per second. After 20 seconds you should be up to 100. At the end of the minute, you should be in the 130+ range. You will not be able to the first times through. Repeat this two or 3 times. Try to work this in every week even during the race season, being efficent pays off.

1 legged drills. On the trainer, very low resistence, unclip 1 leg and do 2 minutes at 40-50 rpms, nice and easy, concentrate on pulling through and over the top.

Same thing as above only at 80-90 rpms after a recovery bit.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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SAC makes good point about building the cadence up over the period of the workout (and it also takes months to get comfortable at higher cadences) But I disagree with the next poster, do not hold the bar tight and tense. Do the opposite, but use your core to stablise make sure you keep your head up and chest out.

On the road bike my max cadence (ever) is 190 and I did this on Monday night. It was part of a warm up set (coach calls it suppleness) and we do repeats of anywhere from 20seconds to 1min. Of course I did not hit 190 for 1min let alone 20seconds, more like 5 seconds. I do 5 repeats of 20sec with 40 sec recovery, each 20sec builds on the previous one so I wll start with 120 all the way up to 180 plus by the 5th repeat.

Taken me 4 months of to get comfortable at higher cadence both inside and on the road. Typical average cadence on the road on group ride is 100-105 but I am not sure if this is optimal for tri racing or training. I ride with a road group so the dynamics are different.



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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [SimpleS] [ In reply to ]
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Slowly building up to the higher cadence smoothly seems to sound like a good plan. I will also try spinning with one leg as I tend to power stroke quite a bit with my right, causing my left to come around faster, making my drivetrain go "clunk" and then I hop.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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funny you should mention single leg, we do a recovery ride on monday evenings that start with slow warm up for 15mins, then 5x20seconds cadence as described above, then 5x1min single leg, then 5x1 single arm, then repeat 5x20 in reverse, warm down. All in one hr. I believe its a really important session as it allows us to flush the legs and get some blood flow after the harder rides at the weekend as well as getting in some drills to improve techique

Have fun



__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [smartasscoach] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The secret is to start at 90-100 rpm and slowly build up the cadence until you feel your a... I mean, the bouncing. Once you feel it you try to control it while increasing the cadence even more slowly. Eventually from session to session you'll be able to achieve higher rpms.
This is correct. When I first started riding seriously, i made it a point to spin as fast as I could comfortably (and effectively). It took a good year to get to be the way I am now - which is probably too high. I now average about 110-115.

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The Dude abides.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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If your seat is set correctly then what is most likely happening is your push at high cadence is so strong compared to your pull that you bounce. Concentrate on pull as you do high cadence efforts.



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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [FatBomber] [ In reply to ]
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More times then not, it is your pedal stroke. Similar to what people say when they get on a Softride. They blame the bike. It's not, it's the rider.

1 leg work outs. I've coached people on this and it is the single most important way to train. Clip out of one pedal and slowly begin pedaling at 20-30rpm. This will teach your muscles to pedal in slow, even circles. This will be very hard to do and you want to do it in a very easy gear. The goal is not how fast but how smooth you can do this.

Practive 2-3 min. with each leg and then clip both in and pedal real slow again. 90% of riders don't have even control of their pedal stroke. Computrainers show this clearly.

Basically proves the pt. that it's the engine, not the bike.
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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [xen355] [ In reply to ]
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"It took a good year to get to be the way I am now - which is probably too high. I now average about 110-115."

Do you mean that you average 110-115 all the time, or just when you're concentrating on fast-cadence spinning? I thought I was a high-cadence person (averaging in mid-90s), but 110-115 sounds like a very high cadence for ordinary cycling, and I wonder whether it would be very efficient for the vast majority of racers.

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: Hopping at fast cadence [Rob C in FL] [ In reply to ]
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My normal cadence is in the low-to-mid 90s, where I was having trouble was in those blasted Spinervals. I think that finding the "hop" in my pedaling stroke and then eliminating it will make me a better rider. I imagine that the ineffecient stroke that I have may be wasting a lot of precious energy in races and even on long training rides.
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