Hasbeen, if I had said that Phelps trains 35 hours a week, i would've lost all credibility, but you and I know the truth.

And didn't you just love those 'voluntary' workouts?

As a former distance swimmer as well, didn't you love swimming at the ass-crack of dawn while the sprinters stayed in bed or lifted? ugh. we hated the sprinters.

Or how about the workouts where we did 7,000 and the sprinters would do 2500 and then complain about how hard they worked.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

20 - 30 hours a week of swimming? Crazy! Now I understand your call letters - hasbeenswimmer!!!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Not sure what you mean here? Do you agree that Phelps does more than 20/week or not? I really don't think 35 is out of the question.

Yeh I really loved the "voluntary" workout. The 20 hour rule was stupid at best. Also loved the rule where your coach could not give you a ride to a workout or meet. I really loved walking to practice at 5 Am in Jan or Feb at 15 degrees only to have my coach drive right by me on the way to the pool. Now that is a great rule!

Yeh I think I wiped the ass crack of dawn a lot more than I should have.

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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike

7000??? I would have killed to only do 7000 in a workout. Unless your talking Meters then that is a bit closer, but was not uncommon for me to do 15-17K yards a day.

I'll say this about our sprinters in college they usually only did about 4K in a worout but of that 4K about half was spent totaly anaerobic. Those poor suckers did more sprints and starts in a workout than I did in a year.

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I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike

These debates are always impossible. It's like asking if LA is a better cyclist than Picasso was a painter? Is it a greater feat of athleticism to hit a 90mph curve ball or run really fast? How can you compare? OTOH, it is fun to debate this stuff, so here goes:

Getting back to athletics, how do you define "greatest?" It seems some people think of "greatest athlete" as the most dominant in their sport. This then leads to the question of "what is their sport?" Some sports are easy, like basketball and hockey. But what about swimming and track? Is 100M freestyle a separate sport than 1500M? If the sport is "swimming in general," the answer is probably Phelps. If you want to look at an individual swimming or track event, you might say Thorpe.

One of the best examples of this is Edwin Moses. The guy literally dominated the 400m hurdles event - winning something like 120 straight meets over the course of a decade. It's hard to think of too many athletes who have batted 1.000 for a decade. But does that make him the best? Most great runners don't even try hurdles. Again, you need to figure out what you are really asking.

Other people in this debate think of "greatest athlete" in a more renaissance-man kind of way. They want to know who has the most complete package of the many different types of athletic skills -- everything from endurance to hand-eye coordination and agility, etc., and who has been able to cross over from one sport to the next. These are what I think of as the "natural athletes." Guys like Jim Thorpe and Jim Brown define this category. Bo Jackson is another example.

Finally, some people try to figure out which sport is the hardest to play and then look for the best athlete in that sport. ESPN.com did a cool series of articles about this last year, sending reporters out to train with surfers, baseball players, modern pentathletes, etc. The results were, of course, inconclusive.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

What's considered a sprinter? 50m? 100m? 200m?

Actually, so far in the 21st century, the most dominate competitor in any major "sport" (loosely defined here as anything likely to show up in the sports pages) is Michael Schumaker in F1. Lance is not even approaching Schumaker's domination. Lance would have had to have won 70% of all the major cycling races, plus 70% of the individual stages in the Tour over the last 6 years to match Schumaker's record.

I know this will throw the NASCAR folks in to a frenzy, but I just don't see how driving a car is an athletic achievement. At least a cycling is reponsible for providing the energy and will to make the bike move.

I think another PART of "Greatness" would be world recognition.

Go around the world and people know Lance Armstrong. Just as they knew Pele, Micheal Jordon, Mohammad Ali, Martina Navralatova and Babe Ruth.

I have no clue who Micheal Schumaker is.

Calling someone "most dominant" versus "best ever" is very different. Sure Merckx was the most dominant over his competition & in all his various races, but how would he & lance compare head to head??

No contest. And all you leather-hairnet-wool-jersey-wearing-steel-frame-riding cycling fans know it.

Just curious, anyone know Eddie's best time up Alpe de Huez? I'm not being a wiseass I just can't find it online.

Most F1 drivers, if not most race car drivers in general, are some of the fittest people around. It requires tremendous stamina and strength to control a F1 car for almost two hours, fast reaction times and decision making (if there is competition, which in F1 there is not much of right now).

IMO, race car drivers are excellent athletes

On a related note, my mother raced Alfa Romeos, Morgan +4s, and MGs back in the late fifties. One of the first female racers around New England/East Coast area. I would have loved to race car back then. You had to drive your car to the race, race, and drive it back home.



Chris

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Chris
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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

You can't compare times across eras in cycling because of the substantial changes in technology, engineering, and even nutrition. LA has access to stuff Merckx couldn't have even dreamed of. That said, one of the things I admire most about Lance is his dedication and focus. He exploits every possible scientific advantage possible, showing a dedication to winning that is second to none.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

I think another PART of "Greatness" would be world recognition.

Go around the world and people know Lance Armstrong. Just as they knew Pele, Micheal Jordon, Mohammad Ali, Martina Navralatova and Babe Ruth.

I have no clue who Micheal Schumaker is.


That's settled then:

Formula One

World's most famous athlete is hard to catch



By Dan Neil / Los Angeles Times





IMOLA, Italy -- He is pound for pound perhaps the most famous athlete since Muhammad Ali and the highest paid in history. From Singapore to St. Petersburg, he cannot show his jut-jawed face without being mobbed. At 35, he is the reigning six-time world champion of the world�s biggest televised sport.

Read the rest at http://www.detnews.com/...otorsports-83753.htm

very well put. Best so far, but we have a loooooong way to go before the 21st Century is over.

Whenever one speaks of domination in a sport, you can't leave out: http://www.yianniskouros.com . I just do'nt have the words, I am too awe struck!

I had never heard of him until I ran across this site:
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/ultramentor/records.html

-bcreager

I think I agree with you. I guess I'm actually against the whole "best ever" thing, as I think there is always eventually going to be someone better, due to technology, better knowledge of training, nutrition, etc.

It's impossible to know how Eddie would have done with the same tools that Lance has. We can only see how they've done vs. their peers.

If Mercxk and Armstrong raced head-to-head, *following Eddie's schedule*, Mercxk would crush Armstrong. You don't win the Yellow, Polka dot and Green jerseys at the Tour unless you are outstanding. And winning them all in the same year, of course. The guy who holds the Hour Best record (Boardman), beat Mercxk's "standard" record (no aero stuff) by a couple of meters. Mercxk dominated the Tours (mountains, sprints, TTs), the classics, and also did six day races on the track.

No contest. Don't give it a second thought.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I agree Merckx was the most dominant, but you just can not say he'd beat Lance.

Your statement could just as well read...

"You don't win the Yellow, Polka dot and Green jerseys at the Tour unless your competition is not as good as you."