I have found that you really need to work at getting yoru powercrank position and cadence as close to race day situaton as possible. Unfortunately I have not found much carryover from one position to the next.

So for example when I trained all winter at the low cadences encouraged by the PCs and went on a training ride on my regular bike that I rode at 90rpm, I didn't feel very good.

When I put the pc's on and trained sitting up most of the time due the the hip flexor issues then rode aero at a race, I didn't feel good.

So make the powercrank position match the race day position as much as possible to get good benefits.

I doubt the gym will help much. If your riding style the past 4 months has been one of simply trying to reestablish your normal rpms and positioning, without working on generating big pushing down power, your results aren't surprising.

You need to do large force work, either on the PC's or off. Doesn't matter which. Most people default to bigger gears when they first get on PC's in order to survive, but, sometimes they don't PUSH those big gears. I think that is because so much of the effort is simply going to trying to pick up the foot...so the big gear big pushing gets lost in the struggle.

Also, if someone is hamstrung (pun intended) too much by their inability to get their usual ride time in due to an inability to ride PC's well, it's obvious that some extensor power could be lost.

Short answer, you have to train at least some in the manner that you intend to race.

How is your running going?

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

You have gotten through the adaption period and now it is time to work on race readiness.

You must race the way you train. If you cannot maintain 90 rpm on your PC's for 2 hours then, when you try to do so in a race situation on regular cranks (because it "seems so easy") you are forcing yourself to go back into old patterns just to survive and your legs are not used to it and they will feel like they have no power, because they don't using that coordination.

You train the quads the same way you do on regular cranks, by using them. Ride hills and push big gears and concentrate on the pushing, the PC's will take care of the back stroke without your needing to think about it.

Then race within your PC capabilities and you should "feel" stronger and see the race benefit. It is tricky to race on regular cranks and see the benefit if you are not fully adapted. To do it right you must be "smarter" and more aware of what you are doing. No zoning out on the bike. You might, also, consider doing a B race on the PC's so you can see what your PC race capability really is, then you know how to race on regular cranks. I also suggest, if racing on regular cranks to set your countdown timer to alarm every 5 or 10 minutes or so and when it goes it is a reminder to assess you cadence, etc. to see if you are within your limits, as it is "easy" to drift on regular cranks.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

i think you answered your own questions fer yerself!

is big gear work on the PC's helpful - sure, why not?

should I be going to normal cranks - going to regular cranks keeping in mind what you developed on the PC's and then stomping out some hard ass gear workouts can hardly be a bad thing, no?

for this or should I go to the gym? - well speaking for myself i hate the gym, and would rather go out on my singlespeed mtn bike and grind up trails in a way too tall gear, or go do hill repeats of some sort on the road ( either PC or no) but maybe you like the gym?



i have come to think that a guy needs to just be loose, and use PC as the really simple training tool that they are. ride them, get acclimated to them, and then use them and other things as you see the need. despite the utterly ridiculous hooha a fellow reads about them here, there is no need to get into some wacky "either/or" mindset with them once you are acclimated, in my view. in the longer term they should adding to your cycling repetoir - not limiting it.

sounds like that, more or less, if where you are at with them. enjoy !

i agree with alot of the other replies. start getting in race position (aero) with race cadence, race power. do intervals with run recoveries. i've seen the adaptation pretty quickly by doing more work in the aerobars at race cadence: i think then you want to lengthen your intervals, as keeping up race cadence for extended periods of time will be your limiter. let me know if you agree or disagree with these ideas (especially you frank)

week 1: 3x(12 min PC, 10 min AT recovery run)

avg power / avg HR (per interval)

207/164

211 / 169

221 / 174

week 2: 3x(15 min PC, 10 min AT recovery Run)

avg power / avg HR (per interval)

249 / 163

248 / 170

251 / 174

week 3: 2x(20 min PC, 12 min AT recovery run) (only 2 intervals for lack of training time)

avg power / avg HR (per interval)

251 / 170

252 / 176

I agree with the concept. It is just that each person is different and some adapt faster than others especially as regards the aero position and high cadence stuff. As long as the user is aware of these "problems" then they can adapt the training schedule to address the weaknesses that are perceived to correct them. The nice thing about the PC's is if one puts an effort into working on something then, usually, improvement can be seen in a relatively short period of time, keeping the user from being depressed with the slow progress. Improvement is comes gradually and requires lots of work but is fast enough to be noticeable so it keeps the athlete motivated.

For the triathlete, interspersing those runs in between these other efforts seems to be a very powerful way to "recover".

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

the idea of running as a recovery is twofold:

1) learning how to run off the bike is important (duh)

2) while trying to work on race cadence with the PC's, you really feel you hip flexors (along with everything else haha). the recovery runs are slow enough to get your heart rate down but you can still "feel" your form by concentrating on the powercrank feel (i think pc'ers will know what i mean), so every recovery is short enough to concentrate on keeping your form good, and getting ready for the next interval.

anyway just ideas, and not really my own either, they come from another PC'er

[reply]the idea of running as a recovery is twofold:

1) learning how to run off the bike is important (duh)

2) while trying to work on race cadence with the PC's, you really feel you hip flexors (along with everything else haha). the recovery runs are slow enough to get your heart rate down but you can still "feel" your form by concentrating on the powercrank feel (i think pc'ers will know what i mean), so every recovery is short enough to concentrate on keeping your form good, and getting ready for the next interval.

anyway just ideas, and not really my own either, they come from another PC'er[/reply]

We are starting to incorporate this idea into our recommendations for runners, especially athletes like football players or those involved in burst activity sports. Two groups. One is running intervals around the track and the other are riding intervals on the PC bike. When the first group comes around to the bike they change. One can vary the amount of time doing each by how many laps the runners do before changing, the interval length, and rest time.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Its Funny what you have found is almost the opposite to me. I think this is because we worked on almost opposite things - whilst you worked at getting your cadences upto 90-95 rpm I worked at pushing big gears. My guess is that it is very difficult when learning on the cranks to take on both high gear and high cadence work. Perhaps this is why many riders improve more in the second year as the whole picture comes together (at least this is what I am hoping), as the hip flexors et al develop both the strength needed for large gears and the endurance needed for higher cadences over prolonged periods.

Here is what I found since starting on PC's last Feb.

• I tended to ride them at very low cadences in big gears.
• My TT'ing time (I mainly did these on the PC's) improved a lot. Though it is difficult to know how much of this was down to the cranks I had previously struggled to push big gears.
• I did find any downhills I came to a bit of a problem as I could not spin quickly enough on the cranks. So I ended up buying a couple of larger Chainrings for these courses.
• I put the cranks on my tri/TT bike after about 3-4 months - I found the aero benifit I gained was negated by the loss of power for a short while until I became more use to riding them in the aero position.
• Apart from a weekly crit (where pc's were banned), i did all my training on them including evening TT's - This ment I did alot of training on my TT bike as my road bike had normal cranks on it for the crits.
• Apart from the crits I only did 2 races on Normal cranks, on both occasions I had a good bike leg (compaired to my usual efforts - not compaired to anyone else!).
• There was no way I could have kept my cadences above 90 for very long - hats of to you for managing it.
• I felt that my running did not really improve that much (perhaps due to the low cadences. Although my running times fell abit I felt that the time improvements were a minimum expected from running 3 times a week (prevoiusly 1-2), losing about 6kg of weight and include coached speedwork sessions and drills.
• In a few ramp tests I have done I have found my heartrate in easy gears /low speeds is alot higher than normal cranks but when in the bigger gears at the faster speeds I find my heartrate is alot tlower than when on normal cranks. This might just have been coinsidence?

Unfortunatly I was off the cranks for a little while in autumn/early winter, but since then I have been working on my cadence during turbo sessions. I have found this hard, but it is becoming easier, though my average cadence during 2hr+ road rides is still low.

Hopefully this high cadence work will help my poor 10k times (38-43mins).

The biggests thing I am having problems with at the moment is riding out of the saddle on my turbo - it is like doing catch-up as I tend to stop at the bottom for a split second.

I have found that they are a good training device, not a substitute for regualr riding. I use them 2-3 times per week 4-6 hours per week total depending on time of year. I have found that about two hours with some specific work on powercranks is more effective than just spending time on them. Plus- you can get hurt really easy on powercranks when you are fatigued. I also do plenty of specific work on regular cranks.

Wow! thanks for the replies guys, some great ideas to work on.

It sounds like I need to do several things, work on the big gears on the hills and work on the aero position at race pace/cadence, followed by short recover runs. Up to now I have been concentrating on getting used to a decent cadence therefore using lower gears, and probably losing some power in the quads in the meantime as up to now I guess all I've really been working on is the pull. I now feel pretty comfortable riding at 85-90 rpm, even in the aero postion for spells, so I'll start to incorporate bigger gear work, concentrating on the pushing down.

Frank, you summed it up exactly as it felt in the Duathlon, the race 'felt' easy, spinning away, but with no real power at all!, it's not that I went slow on the bike, I was 2 minutes quicker than the previous year over the same 18mile course, also in the run I was 30secs quicker over 3miles. So all in all a good result, it's just the way I was feeling on the bike left me thinking I need to work on building the quad strength back up.

I'm not really a fan of the gym, so I'll stick with the bike specific stuff, it seems from the replies that I've got enough I can be working on for now without hitting the gym.

Thanks again for all your replies, a great help.

Cheers

I hope you're not in my AG ;-)

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I'm from the UK, so you've got no worries there!

Even though I improved nearly 3mins in total over the whole race I'm still not that quick, but I'm working on it!

Now you understand why I think for most users these are a two year project and why the improvements should be just as dramatic the second year as the first.

You have a pretty good PC base and technique now and have seen reasonable improvement (actually 3 minutes on a sprint distance isn't bad). Now you need PC strength. Then, after this year, you will still be able to improve, but it should slow down some and be less dramatic.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks