Darn tootin. Not just energy, but oxygen consumption too. You should be able to run a few HR beats lower at the same speed.

Here's an interesting article:
http://nhscc.home.comcast.net/l3_paper.htm

Just take a big dump before the race.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

From the article:

"Finally, how does running economy compare between the barefoot and shod state? Oxygen consumption has been shown to be 4.7% higher while wearing shoes (approximately 700 g per pair) and running at 12 km/h.20 Reasons for this include the mass of the added footwear requiring additional energy to move the shoes through each stride, energy being absorbed by the shoe’s cushioning, and the energy expense of flexing the sole of the shoe. When these energy drags are combined with the previously detailed loss of a stretch reflex from the lower leg it becomes understandable that barefoot running is more economical."

That says it for me. Put aside all the biomechanical advantages of lighter shoes, these scientists expressed it in oxygen consumption. Although that is going from 12.3 oz/shoe to nothing. My calculation only involved a 3oz change so one would see only a fraction of that savings. I still believe over marathon distances it makes a big difference.

but everything else isn't constant.. unless you're biomechanically gifted, you need to train in shoes similar to those you're racing in. Otherwise it's very likely you'll be slower in racing flats - around mile 20-22 things will break down. The only time I raced a marathon in flats I recorded a PW (personal worst) of 3:35, because my knee gave in. Two months later (including six weeks of pool running while rehabbing the knee) I ran 2:50 in training shoes..

Even if you don't break down, at best the actual (observed) improvement is of the order of 2-3 minutes.

I'd advise against it, frankly. Flats are great for racing short distances in pure runs. For everything else a lightweight trainer is a better bet.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Exactly the idea Bowerman used for his custom spikes for the U of O guys, 1oz = 55lb for the mile (good miler with 2yd stride).

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'to give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift'...Pre

I agree with you reasoning. When I did my first marathon I was told by friends that flats would make a difference but that you don't want to run in them too long. Their cutoff was under 3hrs flats over trainers. I wore the flats and ran 2:50 and thought it was pretty easy to do so. Keep in mind I come from a fairly competitve running bckground and have worn flats/spikes to rac in for years. I also wore slightly heavier flats for the marathon than I do for a 10k. If you have flats that are a decent enough cushion and you run 3:30 I would say go for it.

Like doug said you could pay for it at the end but you could pay for a lot of things at the end. If you are running that fast I assume you have donr suffiient training and are more than likely somewhat efficient. Keeping in mind the assume word I would think you will have no problems. You may be sorer the next day though but that won't affect your race!!

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JW (on the comback trail)

seriously...

I've run the majority of my marathons in flats...I'm 5'7" and when in in race shape I'm usually south of 135lbs.

Wearing flats is a gamble. You sacrifice cushioning and support for the chance at saving a couple of minutes. If you're a 2:37 marathoner and you really want to crack that 2:35 barrier, then you'll probably roll the dice and take the chance.

If on the other hand you're a 3:37 marathoner the risks probably outweight the possible benefits. Saving 2 minutes versus a possible meltdown and running 4:37. And the longer you are out there the risks get greater and the net benefits decrease.

Everyone has to make their own decision, but I wouldn't advise anyone to wear flats if they weigh more than about 170lbs or run slower than 3:05 to 3:10. The risks don't merit it.

And I was serious about the dump too.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

true, if you're small/light enough you can probably get by with a good flat in a marathon.
155 is as low as I can go (6'2"), and I need the support/cushion.
My personal goal was a sub-35 10k. When I achieved that, I bought some racing flats, and got another couple of minutes off the 10k over the next few years. How much of that time was due to the flats is unknown..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Plenty of people train and race full-time in flats. You eliminate the risk of changing shoes for race day that way.

If you can afford to change shoes every 100 miles go for it!!

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

You are 6'2" and you can get down to 155 pounds? You need to start a thread to explain how that is accomplished. I am currently 6'2" and weigh 185. I run a 36 minute 10k. I wonder how fast I could run if I lost 30 lbs? To hell with a 3 oz saving on a racing flat I need to go on a diet...

Well I'm 5'7" and after a several month injury layoff I got up to 155lbs myself at the start of January! Down to 147 right now....only another 12lbs to go.

6'2" and 155 is lean.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I guess there are "degrees" of durability with flats. I wear the Brooks T3, which has some carbon rubber on the outsole, but is still a sub-6 oz shoe. I get about 300 miles out of a pair -- I replace them when the outsole is nearly worn through.. One thing about flats -- since there isn't hardly any cushioning, you don't miss anything when the cushioning wears out.

This is what it takes for me:
Run 1-2 hours at moderate-hard intensity 5 days a week, 3-4 hours easy on alternate weekends, with short races, 1/2m or less, on the other weekend. Don't eat snacks, just 3 squares/day of minimally processed food plus fruit at morning/afternoon tea.. Drink wine most days (this is important ;-)

I stay at about 165 when in moderate training, 170 when not training much. Lots of this is genetic and body-type based, too. Ectomorphs like me just don't get that heavy.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Amstel - I'm 6'3 - 6'4 depending on the day and average about 160lbs, never higher than 165. Let me give you a quick rundown of my diet. I wake up around 9:am, usually I skip breakfast. I have an early lunch (around 11:am) which consists of a double bacon cheese burger deluxe, with onion rings and a coke. Or I'll do some sort of breakfast for lunch, like, 3 eggs over medium, hashbrowns and toast or biscuits & gravy. For dinner It's usually something a little better then the first meal but not much. I love pasta but it's infrequent. Usually another burger or something similar (philly cheese steak, chicken sandwhich) or pizza. Then, before bed I either have 2 bowls of cereal (captn crunch or frosted flakes). A few times a week I get a banana split from the local ice cream joint. mmm, banana split.

I've gained about 10lbs in 10 years since high school. I desperatley try to gain weight but can't. Damn fast metabolism. My first roommate was a cook and he said for one month he was going to fatten me up and I'd gain at least 5lbs. I ate everything he put in front of me and on day 30 I had lost 1lb. He was astonished. I took gnc's weight gainer 3 - 4 times a day for about 6 weeks and didn't gain a pound. It's all in the genes; my mom is about 100lbs and skinny as I am. My brother works very hard to stay in shape but if he didn't he'd be like my father tipping the scales at an offensive 275.

Dave G - That is depressing to hear. I eat a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, a turkey sandwich and pretzles for lunch, and a grilled chicken breast with greenbeans for dinner. I usually exercise 15-20 hours per week. This will result in no gain or loss. If I eat 1 more calorie I will gain at least pound.

As I get older...it gets much harder to keep the extra fat off......I used to race with a buddy here in Atlanta and the guy was amazing .....he could eat ANYTHING ....loves Waffle House......wakes up in the middle of the night and eats cheap sweet rolls.......and the guy looks like a Greek statue.....sure, he trains A LOT.....but the crap that he can eat and remain so low in body fat is amazing......his nick name is "Chisel".......due to his chiseled physique..........makes me ill.

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I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do
I shall be a champion of freedom and justice