IM long run training

Jun 21, 10 21:43

Post #1 of 17 (8023 views)

So I managed to get approval to leave work at 3:00pm for the rest of the summer (normally I get off at 4:30pm) so I can do my long runs without feeling too rushed. Unfortunately, I have some sort of weird tendinitis in the top of my right foot which levels me to limping home during my long runs (so far the longest I have gone is 12 miles). Now I am freaking out about getting enough run training in for IMWI in September. It will be my first. Also, I have a HIM on July 4th that I am hoping to get through as well. I am feeling okay about my bike training for the HIM (my long rides are at 120km right now) and if my foot doesn't give out, I should be able to get through the run.

The training plan I am following (the free one from SuperCoach network) calls for long runs based on time, not distance. My pace is really slow to manage my foot. I think the plan assumes that the athletes are way faster than me. I have been considering modifying the plan to do my long runs for distance vs. time. But I am worried that if I push too far, that my foot will not hold out for the 12 weeks leading up to the race. My goal is to hold about 11min/mile on the IM marathon, but it might even be in the ballpark of 11:30 if I can find a run/walk routine that works for me. Based on my goal pace per mile, would a 2:30 or 3:00 long run be enough to get me through to the finish? I am looking at about a 6:15-6:30 bike time, and about 1:15-1:20 for the swim based on my training so far.

What is your guys' experience with IM long run training? Do you use time or distance?

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 6:06

Post #2 of 17 (7937 views)

Hopefully you will sort out what's happening with the top of your foot soon! Have you thought about going in for a leg/foot massage?

Training for IM last year, I used Endurance Nation. A majority of the work-outs were based on time. I think the longest run was capped at 3 hours, which means I ran 20-21 miles.

How does your foot feel during the bike/run bricks? If it feels better in this situation (because your legs are warmed up) I would consider supplementing your long runs with long bricks for a week or two - focusing on a shorter bike (45-60 mins) followed by a longer run.

You're race isn't until September, focus on getting your foot better than on getting in your long runs. You can still get in your total training hours/week through biking and swimming, missing a long run or two in June/July won't be too bad. You still have time to "make them up".

Good luck with training and your IM.

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 8:01

Post #3 of 17 (7886 views)

My longest run last year was 12 miles efore IMC. Previous IM races I was running for time and 3 hours was the longest. If you have your swimming and biking fitness where you want it to be, you'll be fine on the run. Don't panic. My non-prefessional advice is it's better to go in uninjured than "trained to where you think you should be."

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 12:15

Post #4 of 17 (7702 views)

Time, definitely. Don't worry about distance. Also, you have enough time to get in lots of long runs *provided* you get this foot thing sorted. And I mean sorted, not "oh I'll just suffer thru it" - that ain't gonna get to to the start line in good shape...

Can you do some water running? It's boring as hell but works. I developed achillies tendonosis about 3 weeks before my first IM, and did water running for 2 weeks, I was fine come race day. FWIW, the longest water run I did was 2hrs and if you can survive that mental tedium, you can survive an IM ;-)

Or: stop running for a few weeks and just ride & swim A LOT.

I did one 3hr run, and a whack of 2-2:30hr runs before my first IM, and a lot less long runs before my second (but greater frequency) - I did a lot better at the second one ;-)

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Re: IM long run training [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 12:38

Post #5 of 17 (7691 views)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I am definitely working on getting the foot thing sorted out - going to physio, etc. and adding more stretching as I think it related to tight calves/shin muscles. I don't want to show up to the start line fearing that I am not going to be able to run at all. I'm glad other people have trained by time - that is going to simplify things a lot. Right now, I can make it about 90 minutes with no pain, so hopefully with some physio, I will be back on track.

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 17:01

Post #6 of 17 (7633 views)

Maybe you should consider no more road running for a month? Substitute with water running, while you get a diagnosis and therapeutic plan for the foot pain. Do not continue road running, it won't help and may cause further injury.

If you use water running, with typical IM training swim and bike volumes, you'll probably be just fine for your September race. But don't keep hobbling through workouts because that's what it says in your training plan. Stop your road running until you know what is going on with your foot.

My opinion, of course.
BrokenSpoke

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 10 21:12

Post #7 of 17 (7600 views)

OK so I am poaching here on the woman's forum... :-) besides your foot issue all my clients irrespective of finishing time run a max of 2:30-45 mins and all do 10 run 1 walk... this I believe is the most productive..and the least impactful and BTW I try to get many to do the long run on a Wed.. good luck and have fun

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 23, 10 1:40

Post #8 of 17 (7580 views)

I'm worried about your foot injury, particularly as you said you have to run slowly to baby it. Anything that alters normal mechanics and pace = something that should be rested, not run on.

Where is the pain? Is it possible you have shoes tied too tightly over the area? (done that before!) --- do different shoes alleviate it?

You may have inflamed a tendon on the top of your foot - see a doc - possibility of NSAIDS, ice, rest, steroid injection to calm it down.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Re: IM long run training [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]

Jun 23, 10 9:32

Post #9 of 17 (7511 views)

Yeah, my physio said that it was probably a tendon issue. He is doing ultrasound on it to get the blood flowing to it, and recommended that I do cold/hot baths on it to increase the circulation to the area. The good news is, the area is not nearly as painful as it was the first time I had it so hopefully it will heal quicker this time. It had been happening earlier in the year (Jan/Feb) so I took some time off from running and did water running instead. I think it initially started because I was tieing my shoes too tight, so I loosened them. Then, I got these new insoles which made my shoes fit tighter and then the pain started coming back. I'm very frustrated with finding a good shoe.

I guess I have been apprehensive to do that right now as it's race season. But everyone is right, resting the foot and getting it healed up is going to be more important in the long term than changing my training plan slightly for a few weeks. I think I am definitely going to train based on time instead of distance as I had planned, if it has worked for other people, then I will give it a whirl. And I'm going to try a run/walk program as well to see if that helps, too.

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 23, 10 11:32

Post #10 of 17 (7488 views)

Definitely keep the big picture in mind. Your IM is more important than any other race.

WRT long run for IM. I went 2.5 hours. I was told that your body don't know miles, it knows time. It doesn't know pace, it knows effort.

Keep in mind that long runs are hard on the body as a generalization. You need to recover and taking that recovery can impact your other training. You don't want to be sore for 3 days. Also training for an IM is not the same as training for a stand alone marathon so don't think about your long run as being the same as a long run for a stand alone mary.

There is nothing wrong with doing some walking but I always did it as a way to get used to starting to run again after walking. It really hurts and doing the run/walk in training really helped me get started again during my last IM after my aid station walks. I never did a walk/run pattern specifically in training because my goal was always to run as much of the IM mary as possible.

This is a bit of a babble but hopefully some of it makes sense.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 29, 10 3:10

Post #11 of 17 (6801 views)

Best to try and get your foot problem sorted rather than push the pain barrier and risk further damage. Have yo considered changin shoes? I had a similar problem once and finally figured out it was the shoes .

If I was you I would aim to make sure I keep my run frequency up (i.e. runs/week) but cap the long runs to what you can manage pain free. You could also split your long run day into what you can manage in the morning (e.g. 90m), then a shorter easy run in the evening (e.g. 45-60mins). If the pain persists a run/walk strategy would probably help.

I have done 4 IMs and always trained on time not distance. My first 3 IMs has me doing several 2.5-3hr runs. Last IM I did, the longest run was 2hrs but I did a weekly 1.5hr-2hr run throught the year always ending with 20-30mins really hard effort. That seemed to work better for me and I ran faster than my standalone marathon time in the IM.

Best of luck.

Re: IM long run training [NoBrakes] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 10 0:18

Post #12 of 17 (6735 views)

Hi!

I did my first IM this year in pretty identical times you are prediciting: 1.20/6.25/4.35.

I only ever ran up to 3 hours in training, never more than 20 miles in those runs. I didn't walk one step of the marathon. I think your plan sounds like a good one.

Good luck!

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 10 0:25

Post #13 of 17 (6734 views)

I trained by time for all my IMs so far. But get your foot looked at. My first IM I trained through achilles tendonitis. I kept thinking all I need to do is get through the race and then I'll deal with it. I went into the race knowing I was going to shuffle the last 1/2 of the run because that's exactly what happened in training, after 12 miles of all my long runs my achilles pain was awful, but I pushed through it for the sake of training.

Sure enough, mile 12 of the marathon I slowed from a 9 min pace to an 11-12 min shuffle. IT WAS MISERABLE. Mentally I knew i could do it and so I stuck it out, but i was so turned off to IM races for a while after that. It wasn't the challenge I thought it would be because I couldn't push myself the way I wanted to. I was dealing with pain, but not from pushing myself. I know I'll never start another IM knowing that's how the run will go.

Get the foot healthy.

Re: IM long run training [GhiaGirl] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 10 8:24

Post #14 of 17 (6692 views)

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice and information! I did get to my doc and she is taking the foot thing very seriously which is nice from a general practitioner, particularly because it is a sports-related concern. She ordered an x-ray to see if there was anything wrong with the bones/arthritis, and is going to refer me to a sport medicine doctor if there is no bone-related problem. She was very nice and I am thrilled she was so helpful. Normally doctors just say rest it, or change to a different sport. In the meantime, I have been cutting back on the running and rolling out all my leg muscles. This seems to be working, along with the ultrasound at physio. My foot pain has gone away again, and I have begun running short distances again pain free. I will get the results from the x-ray today and go from there. I also loosened the laces on my shoes, just in case. :) I'm going to be very wary of my foot over the next little while and be careful about how long I am running and whether there is any pain at all. I don't want to have to suffer through the IM marathon!

~Mel.

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jun 30, 10 15:28

Post #15 of 17 (6635 views)

If it is shoelaces that are affecting the tendons on your foot, then just loosening might not be the issue. You might need to completely re-do the way you lace your shoes to eleviate pressure and friction on the tendon. (I have some odd lacing patterns on my shoes and take a knife to brand new shoes to decrease pressure points.) And also look at all the shoes you are wearing - not just the ones you run in. Remember - your feet swell over the day and shoes that fit well without issues for the am runs might not work as well with pm runs.

What is the PT doing besides contrast baths and US? Have you gotten a home exercise program and information as to how to treat acute flares?

Regarding running for the IM. x2 if you're changing your gait pattern, then stop running for a bit! Everything in the body is connected and changing the gait pattern to accomadate the foot will throw something else "out of wack" and you will be down for longer then if you had just taken the time off. x2 the water running - worked great for me after ankle sx. Use a mix of walk-run to ease back into longer runs. I would also suggest loop runs so that if things start hurting you are not that far from home.

Vale!
Tracy T
http://www.thelencoaching.com
Some light reading::: http://www.tracythelen.blogspot.com

Re: IM long run training [spacebabe] [ In reply to ]

Jul 7, 10 8:52

Post #16 of 17 (5667 views)

Late reply, but I had severe pain on the tops of both of my feet (more the right than the left) when marathon training last year. Went to the doc, no stress fracture, nothing serious. She sent me to one of those "feet stores" and they fitted me with over-the-counter orthotics after analyzing my feet. Basically my feet were rolling around as I ran (starting on the insides and landing on the outsides, where the pain was) and I needed a stabalizing insert.

They wanted to do a custom orthotic but my marathon was in 3 weeks - they take a few months to mold, order, and break in - and I wasn't sure my insurance would pay for any of it. The custom ones are really expensive. But the over-the-counter ones did the trick for me and they have been a staple in my running shoes ever since.

Just a thought.

Re: IM long run training [lisac957] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 10 10:02

Post #17 of 17 (5131 views)

Not a woman but I ran across this post in a search.

I had pain in the top of my left foot and it sounds like we both run the same way (rolling our feet). Basically what I found was that this was twisting my foot and the Dr. had me tape the foot as well as find a shoe that had a stiffer forefoot to prevent the twist. I run with orthodics normally (Superfeet) but that's basically just the arch and heel and has no stabilization of the forefoot.

This helped a LOT and I was able to complete my marathon (did the Goofy Challenge shortly after that also). I've spent quite a bit of time though retraining myself how to run and to push off with the big toe (which has lead to some other problems but...).

Good luck

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