I agree with cbot and dev here. You can't compare the 2 situations because I don't believe the 4 hour marathoner's effort (physical and mental) is even close to the effort to put out a sub-2:30 marathon. Saying this doesn't make anyone elitist. It just means that we recognize that there's a difference to someone like me working my tail off for a PR and someone setting a world record.

World class marathoners can run a 2h30 marathon without any increase in blood lactate. This would be very easy for them.

It takes lots more power to run a 2h30 marathon than to run a 3h30 one. But more effort ? The perceived exertion rate is what it is. Two persons working at 15, are enduring the same amount of pain. Why would 15 be 'harder' on the world class athlete ?

I assumed most of you have been training for many many years. Do you suffer more in your races, now that you are faster than you were as beginners ? In my case, I would argue that I suffer less now, since I know exactly what I can endure, and for how long. There are no more crash and burn that can be really really painfull.

Francois in Montreal

What you are saying is that you would be bored out of your skull if you had to run in one spot for 4 hours. I get very bored on the treadmill even if I am watching TV. i find the best way to do a longer treadmill run is to watch a sporting event.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

Francois just hit the nail on la tete.

My first marathon, a 3:38 required a pretty similar effort to my last marathon a 2:37. Racing is racing, and when it comes to the marathon they pretty much all hurt when you give them your all.

One thing I will add however in Paul's defense. The physical pain and mental anguish required to get into 2:37 shape far outweigh the sacrifices needed to run 3:38.

100+ mile weeks are long painful and mentally draining no matter which way you dice them. 2:30 runners definitely suffer more in training, thats why they DON'T suffer more in races.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I actually find that I suffer a lot more now than I did when I was starting out.

I think it is because I am better aware of how much suffering our bodies are able to tolerate than I was when I began racing. In retrospect I don't think I pushed myself as hard when I was starting out as I do now b/c I didn't think I could go any harder w/o collapsing.

I think our ability to push our bodies in racing and thus suffer more develops in parallel to our physical development. Just the opinion of a MOPer.

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"He broke into the long easy lope, and went on, hour after hour, never at loss for the tangled way, heading straight home through strange country with a certitude of direction that put man and his magnetic needle to shame."

-Call of the Wild

Low temperature, maybe, but pointing a fan at somebody creates wind drag just as exists outdoors.

I had a feeling someone would point that out !

You are correct. Running at 4minutes per km in still air outdoor would be the same in terms of drag as running with a fan projecting a 15 kmh uniform air jet. The backward fan would actually help you run even faster ! Not sure how much cooling it would provide.

I actually tried several fan configurations, and the best I found is still a huge fan right in front although a floor fan blowing vertically is not bad. Theoretically, it also reduces your weight ... :-)

Francois in Montreal