While looking back at my race results and training I have been rethinking my whole approach of training volume/frequency and intensity. I have ended up training alot less and recovering better and I am now improving at a better rate. One of the things that has motivated me is a quote that I read in the 1st edition of the Cyclist's Training Bible written by Joe Friel:

"Use the least amount of the most specific training that brings continued improvement"

I thought about this alot and feel that as long as my sessions show improvement in endurance and the pace I can maintain it doesn't matter how much I actually train. When my endurance plateaus then increasing my volume would be necessary, but if I max out a variable such as how many days per week I train it gives me no where to go once I plateau. If I stick to the statement from above I will have room to adapt the program once continued improvement ceases.

Kittycat I believe with your main race being so far away you are maxing out one major variable of your program very early. This not only gives you less room to adapt your program in the future but it sounds like from your description that you are risking potential burn out before your big race too. I bet with a properly designed program you can manitain continued improvement with 6 days or less and save the 7 day weeks till your push phase. Good Luck.

I am just like you.. mentally i need one day off a week.. I train a whole lot better that way. Did you talk to your coach about it? Lately I have been doing yoga on my day off which is the one thing I am ok with. But sometimes, I just need one day where I can go straight home from work and not worry about training...

KC, you've just said a lot in there. I am certainly not a tri coach (or even a triathlete until I do my first one in '05), so I'm basing my comments on my results from cycling.

IMHO, 10 hours isn't a lot, especially if one or two are 3hr rides/bricks, etc. I'd say it's right between a light schedule and a medium one. I'd also guess that for an Intl/Oly, you would be just fine on a lower-hour commitment (the 8 or so you prefer), especially if done at a higher intensity. 8-10 hours can be packed into 5 days easily. I get 10-13 into 5, sometimes 6.

Is it also possible that your coach is counting on you to skip some workouts, thus schedules more than you need?

BTW, I'm super insanely jealous about your swimming. If I could say that about myself, I drop a pool session or two! Saaaaaaaaaay, I'll trade you some bike speed/endurance for some swimming ability! ;-)

---

**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

7 days a week seems stupid to me, a day off a week does wonders for you mentally.

Hello my little kitten,

Well, this thread has gotton long and I didn't read the other posts before commenting so my apologies in advance if there is repetition here.

First off, the issue of coaching: I am of the opinion that you are your own best coach. Go out there and buy some books on exercise physiology in general and triathlon training specifically and techniques and training for each individual sport. Do a good survey of those books, learn the key points and how they relae to your goals, abilities and schedule.

Boom. For $300 worth of books you are now your own coach. Well done. You will be charged with monitoring your own progress, recovery, lack of recovery, etc. Be a student of the sport.

Secondly, while all coaches vigorously defend their "credentials" few are qualified to take on the very daunting and serious task of being charged with another person's well-being while preparing for a difficult endurance event. Just e-mailing workouts does not a coach make.

I was contacted two years ago by a local charity that wanted me to "coach" their triathlon program. I like the charity and enjoy their work so I agreed. What I learned was that my task was utterly impossible: coach 22 athletes simulataneuously of wildly differing ability levels. Absolutely impossible even for a full time coach who works 8-10 hours a day just doing that. Absolutely impossible. 2 athletes may have been a more reasonable workload for doing a decent job, if I had a lot of help.

Now, secondly, just becasue some Roman fella a few thousand years ago decided the calendar should have 7 days in a week doesn't mean our bodies agree with that.

I am of the opinion that our bodies work in cycles, and that those cycles from stress to recovery to adaptation are individual contingent on what type of training you are doing, duration, intensity,etc. Sometimes a 10 day stress, two day recovery, three day adaptation rotation may be appropriate and other times the equation may be different. Once you learn the appropriate methods of training specifically for a specific goal (from all the books you bought) then you can also learn haw to determine if that training is effective and make necessary changes as needed.

Maybe you will train four days, rest, train six days, rest, train two days, rest.... It all depends on the signals your body is sending them, what you are trying to accomplish and your interpretation of them.

Good luck girl. PPPpppppprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I don't remember who said it, but: "We don't get faster by working hard, we get faster by recovering properly after working hard." If there are no breaks in your schedule for your body to absorb the training by recovering, then it sounds like you won't be fast or happy.

If you are not the type of person who gets the shakes if you miss one day of working out, then you will probably be well served by having days of scheduled into your program. I know I can work hard during my "on" days when I know I can look forward to resting on my "off" day.

On a side note, how many of you know somebody (or it happened to you) where they were a hardcore 7-day/week type of person who got a cold the week before a big race. They freaked out because they were missing all of their quality workouts to prepare for the race, then they come out and set a PB at the race.

Todder - Lovin' the TWO rest days this week for the taper before Cyclocross Nationals.

Kitty,

I couldn’t agree with Tom more. Read up, and be your own coach. IMO you will enjoy it more and nobody knows your body better than you. I think this whole "coaching" stuff over the web is a bit overstated. I rowed/sculled at a high level after college and my coach could handle about 6-7 single-scullers at a time. I just wonder what the quality is being coached over the web by someone with a zillion other clients all over the world?

I decided to take the money I would spend on coaching and used it on massages instead, about twice a month.

I typically take one day off every two weeks BUT, like Tom said, it varies depending on how I feel.

GOOD LUCK!

Dave from VA

that's a deal on the swim/cycling trade. I'm a creeper on a bike, and I know this spring there will be some to call me a poser on my beautiful new ride (Bianchi EV Boron Centaur, celeste color, with the campy compos). But hey, it's all good. I plan on getting my bodyfat to around 18% by spring, so at least I'll look like a hard ass on it...lol.

Keep working on teh swim. IMO it takes the longest, but is the most rewarding. NOthing feels better than cutting the water like a sharp knife. That's what dreams are made of.

kc

OK mister. I'll take your advice. I will buy the books and "being a student of the sport" will be my new year's resolution--but better than that, I will actually do it (as opposed to creating some wiley resolution, only to not do it).

My friends at the LBS tell me that they believe triathletes are generally over trained. In fact, the owner's girlfriend does IM's and he said that if she rested 20% more she would win her age group, and that in fact it is the high volume of training that causes her to not get first place. This is interesting. I've certainly not gotten used to the number of days and volume myself, even though i ran marathons. Hell, marathons seem easier than this--I can tell you that!

In the end, I do believe that I would be best served by droping weight and body fat and emerging this spring as a lean mean kitten machine. this combined with quality (key word, quality) training, I should be good to go. My goal is 18% bodyfat--this should have me nice and fiesty, yet still looking like a feminine feline.

meow.

A few thoughts...

My ruling "planet" is the moon, so I'm inclined to think I'm more receptive to lunar cycles than most males. No matter what their ruling planet, most females ought to be pretty aware of natural cycles that are in accordance with the moon. Why not just follow your own natural cycle in regards to taking time off? Like, maybe take day one and two off and then exercise every day for the next 24, 25, 26, 27, or however many more days it takes to complete your natural cycle, with your very hardest days around day 10-14. I know it sounds odd to work out without taking "days off", but in reality you don't take a day off until you die. Maybe you need to exercise more restraint in your workouts and leave more fuel in the tank for the next day, such that you are always amped to go. I know that if I take days off, whether I "need" them or not, they always make me feel drowsy and my mind is not as clear.

Just wondering, how much you paying to be coached?

Joe--Kittycat said that.

I noticed that after I posted, and thought it must be a sign that my resolution for her was junk.

no I'm referring to people who make all these lofty new year's resolutions only to break them 3 weeks into it...so I was saying that I would make it a real deal, not like some wiley, or lofty goal.

you know:

workout more, quit smoking, spend more time with the kids, save money, get out of debt, yada yada yada. this goal won't be one of those...that's what I mean. :)

My name is Joe Wiley, so Monk thought it was a nice pun. I understand what you mean though.

Hi Kitty Kat,

One word, REST, It is the key to getting stronger, it is the only way that your muscles, which you damage everytime you excersize will get a chance to repair themselves and get ready for the next workout.

Secondly, what are your current stats, i dont think anyone here can make a proper assesment of whats right for you if one does not know your current body age and composition.

Lastly, take a look at pro athletes, NONE of them work out 7 days a week, football players look at film on mondays, put the game plan together on tuesdays, work out on wed, thurs and friday, travel on fri/sat and play on sunday, and these people dont hold full time jobs like the rest of us, your body needs to rest just from the full time job that one occupys.

Slow your training down, always listen to your body, eat eat eat eat and eat properly and your WILL see results, i guarrantee it.

PS, I see that you live in OHIO, I used to fly out of Dayton, what a miserable place in the wintertime,ha

Dan

---

_____________________________________________

I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

Amen to that!

the coach works for you, not the other way around.

some people can do 7 days, but one of them should be super easy.. sgort active recovery. but if that doesnt suit you .. tell your coach to shape up or ship out.. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!

Miss Puss

Gordo Byrn always stresses the importance of consistency in our training - weeks/months/years of training are what add up. I think he is onto something, but for me to do that I need to rest at least a day a week so I can keep it rolling. Maybe it's different if you train full time, have no dependents, etc, but for most of us this is a balancing act, and getting enough rest in is perhaps the hardest thing of all to grapple with.

---

kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

One problem with having someone else write your program is that it's difficult to employ the "know thyself" principle. After being involved in this wacky sport for 15 years it seems like the only thing that I can say for sure is that your body is your body and it behooves you to learn how to listen to it and become a more intuitive athlete so you know when to push and when to back off. That being said I think the true value of a coach is a 2nd set of eyes to observe you and give you suggestions as to WHEN you ought to go harder and WHEN you may want to back off.

I have the privilege of being able to train with a former asics sponsered athlete (the guy is 48 and recently ran a 9:27 2 mile) who was coached by 2 time gold medalist Peter Schnell of Australia. Of all the pearls of wisdom that he has imparted to me I'd say that whole "know thyself" thing is the most valuable.

So know thyself (for example I know that in the off-season my body needs top-shelf margaritas and spicy chicken nachos smothered in guacamole)

Miguel in the 'No...El Tribato

---

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Most of the other posters have said lots of good stuff already, here just a few more things to think about:

1) I prefer active recovery days, even if a rest day is scheduled I will often go for a 20mins run with the dog (who is kind of slow so you get the idea) I feel really sluggish for the next set of workouts otherwise. I go real easy on these active recovery days. Real easy!

2) I am helping a lady with her program (she has signed up for her first IM) and I refuse to give her more than 1 week at a time and then only if she gets back to me with a full update of what she did the week before. This way we can make decisions on how much more or less she can handle in the coming week. I also want to know about her work schedule as this is can cause serious addtional physial and mental fatigue.

Another factor, I found that having all the workouts in front of me for 2 weeks let alone a month can cause stress. The impending big week or key workout can cause more stress.

This is the other side of the coin of the coaching equation. I insist that she get back to me, with no update from her I cannot help. (BTW I dont regard what I am doing as coaching, its just some assistance, I also refuse to be paid for it)

Another thing I like to hammer in to her is to ask why she is being asked to do these workouts (she attends a running group and spin class once a week, its her responsiblity to know why the instructor is asking her to do certain things during the workout) I really believe every workout has to have a point and its your responsilbity to know why you are doing them. What is the overall plan for the year, the quarter, the month, the week, the day, the workout. What are you trying to achieve?

As others have already pointed out: you have a communication issue with your coach. Talk to him/her. For fear of sounding negative and unsupportive: training is ultimately your responsiblity, not your coaches b/c you have to do the training and racing.

3) Not to say you are a wimp or infer anything of the sort but what we believe becomes our reality. If you believe you need a rest day then you do. Nothing wrong with that.

It has taken me a while to get to the point where I take active recovery often and full off days when I need it. But I make the decision based on experience and knowledge of my body and my mental tolerance. As you are aware there is mental and physical burn out and they are often related.

4) This brings me on the the last point, as a few posters have already mentioned - know yourself. I would add only that unless you have extensive background in endurance events before coming to tris its sometimes a bit hard to know what the signs are of burn out, over training etc. It takes good intuition and/or experience (in my case I learnt the hard way once too often).

So I would only suggest you talk to your coach in detail. It maybe you are on one of these plans that does not allow a lot of access to the coach, so make a long list of questions and then hit her/him with them during your allotted time. Email him/her in advance. Ask the whys etc.

Good luck and have lots of fun training and racing!

---

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??